The Gens are sellers. Not good news

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by GensAdmin on Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:07 pm

laughton is a great player but without a sure fire dominate team this year a move to better themselves in the years to come is never a terrible idea. please need to remember this league you can either compete well each year or go on a 4-6 year cycle.....or you can be the knights. i think the gm has chosen to have a competitive team each season rather then have those years trolling the bottom of the league.

secondly this has ZERO to do with laughton the person, and is more a business/team move. getting a heavy return for 1 player is always good. trading the captain of the national jr team will give the gens a fantastic haul

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by steamed on Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:13 pm

GensAdmin wrote:laughton is a great player but without a sure fire dominate team this year a move to better themselves in the years to come is never a terrible idea. please need to remember this league you can either compete well each year or go on a 4-6 year cycle.....or you can be the knights. i think the gm has chosen to have a competitive team each season rather then have those years trolling the bottom of the league.

secondly this has ZERO to do with laughton the person, and is more a business/team move. getting a heavy return for 1 player is always good. trading the captain of the national jr team will give the gens a fantastic haul



Good post  Very Happy agree 100%
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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by chupa81 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:50 pm

GensAdmin wrote:laughton is a great player but without a sure fire dominate team this year a move to better themselves in the years to come is never a terrible idea. please need to remember this league you can either compete well each year or go on a 4-6 year cycle.....or you can be the knights. i think the gm has chosen to have a competitive team each season rather then have those years trolling the bottom of the league.

secondly this has ZERO to do with laughton the person, and is more a business/team move. getting a heavy return for 1 player is always good. trading the captain of the national jr team will give the gens a fantastic haul

I agree... But don't think our GM would be able to get a good haul for him.. I don't think he's a good GM! That's just me! He has done nothing since he has been here.

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by GensAdmin on Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:53 pm

everyone is entitled to their opinion but sometimes doing very little is better then doing too much.

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by steamed on Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:00 pm

Done nothing Josh Sterk, and you base your opinion on how many trades he has made on how good Towhey is.A least give him to January 10th to make that opinion and even then you can't because there are other teams that he has to deal with in making trades.
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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by chupa81 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:58 pm

Josh was a great pick up.. Last years deadline deals were horrible!!!

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by Macker88 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:18 pm

The Josh Sterk deal has certainly panned out really well, no matter how much some dislike Towhey, myself included. You have to give him credit on that deal.

I feel people's anger with him is in larger part due to him standing pat, coupled with his very lackluster deals maid at last years deadline. I mean he brought in Karlsson, who was a healthy scratch more often then not, for Uvira who was actually playing decent minutes, an continued to produce in Plymouth. He traded Tyler Hore for Dundas.. Hore has played on the top pairing in Sarnia this year, an Dundas has done nothing in his whole OHL career. He brings in Johnny McGuire, who we could use this year, but last year he wasn't needed. We had enough toughness.

When you really think about it, Oshawa was in a far better position to win last season, an Towhey did nothing to improve the team then either. You can say Barrie and Belleville were better, but has Oshawa made better moves at the deadline, one could argue they would of been the best in the East.

It's true you can't fully judge him until the deadline, but with that being said, every GM is in the same position, it's not as if Twohey is special, every team has to deal with other teams making trades and other GM's wanting big hauls in exchange for players. As a GM you have to make those tough calls, an make those trades. GM's are judged on the deals they make. I honestly believe if your a Good GM you no how to acquire good players.

Bottom line here if Twohey stands pat with this club he should be fired. If your not going for it, you HAVE to trade Laughton, Altshuller, Sullentrop for returns. If you are going for it, you HAVE to acquire a few assets, as the Gens have a few wholes to full.

I understand the chemistry issue, an the whole you don't make a trade just to make it scenario. But, bottom line is this team is not good enough to win the OHL with the current roster. This theory that the west will beat each other up an then the East will have an easier time in the finals, is BS. This is junior hockey, these kids play 3 in 3 nights, the western teams will be fine come the finals. An the East may be the weaker division but don't kid yourself the East winner is gonna be banged up also. Barrie, Kingston, Sudbury, Oshawa & even North Bay are all good teams and there gonna beat up on each other come playoff time.

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by steamed on Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:38 pm

Twohey's a doom man if dosn't make a trade and a doom man because he gave up too much in a trade,everybodys not going to be happy.
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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by chupa81 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:45 pm

Macker88 wrote:The Josh Sterk deal has certainly panned out really well, no matter how much some dislike Towhey, myself included. You have to give him credit on that deal.

I feel people's anger with him is in larger part due to him standing pat, coupled with his very lackluster deals maid at last years deadline. I mean he brought in Karlsson, who was a healthy scratch more often then not, for Uvira who was actually playing decent minutes, an continued to produce in Plymouth. He traded Tyler Hore for Dundas.. Hore has played on the top pairing in Sarnia this year, an Dundas has done nothing in his whole OHL career. He brings in Johnny McGuire, who we could use this year, but last year he wasn't needed. We had enough toughness.

When you really think about it, Oshawa was in a far better position to win last season, an Towhey did nothing to improve the team then either. You can say Barrie and Belleville were better, but has Oshawa made better moves at the deadline, one could argue they would of been the best in the East.

It's true you can't fully judge him until the deadline, but with that being said, every GM is in the same position, it's not as if Twohey is special, every team has to deal with other teams making trades and other GM's wanting big hauls in exchange for players. As a GM you have to make those tough calls, an make those trades. GM's are judged on the deals they make. I honestly believe if your a Good GM you no how to acquire good players.

Bottom line here if Twohey stands pat with this club he should be fired. If your not going for it, you HAVE to trade Laughton, Altshuller, Sullentrop for returns. If you are going for it, you HAVE to acquire a few assets, as the Gens have a few wholes to full.

I understand the chemistry issue, an the whole you don't make a trade just to make it scenario. But, bottom line is this team is not good enough to win the OHL with the current roster. This theory that the west will beat each other up an then the East will have an easier time in the finals, is BS. This is junior hockey, these kids play 3 in 3 nights, the western teams will be fine come the finals. An the East may be the weaker division but don't kid yourself the East winner is gonna be banged up also. Barrie, Kingston, Sudbury, Oshawa & even North Bay are all good teams and there gonna beat up on each other come playoff time.

Good post... cheers  Another thing I've heard in the past is that the GMs don't have total control of what deals...So Towhey may not be 100% to blame... Owners may have a lot to say as well.

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by steamed on Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:48 pm

Oh great now lets blame the owner as well  Laughing
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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by chupa81 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:00 pm

steamed wrote:Oh great now lets blame the owner as well  Laughing

Why not!! LOL!!  Very Happy 

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by Macker88 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:11 pm

Steamed - That's just the position that every GM is in to be honest. Every team has fans and they all judge their GM based on what he does each season. I mean I'm sure fans in Guelph are thrilled to have acquired Rychel & Ebert, but I'm sure they're are fans sitting there thinking their GM is an idiot. An I'm sure if Guelph doesn't win the OHL title, more an more fans will come out an say they hated the deal.

I believe some Fans on this site are reasonable and understand a good move when its made. Like we can all admit the Sterk deal was a steal. But at the same time we have to admit the deadline deals last season where horrid. Twohey is clearly being judged more on his deals last season then this year. But the way I look at it is he's made 4 deals and he's lost 3 of them. An just like a Hockey teams play on the ice when you have a losing record, question marks come up.

As far as the comment about the Owners being part of trade discussions. Your absolutely right, lots of times owners have large input with the club. It is after all a business. From a hockey stand point if were selling, Laughton being traded makes sense. From a business stand point it doesn't. Laughton sells the most jerseys, lots of fans come to see him play, he was just named Team Canada Captain which is a huge thing. Trading the World Junior Captain for youngsters has a negative effect on the fans that come an go an don't really follow the OHL as a whole. All they see is oh Oshawa traded their best player for nothing. Well maybe I'll go to a game next year. They don't understand its a rebuilding trade. We have great owners in Oshawa as far as I'm concerned, I'm not knocking them. But I understand its a business an if they need to make moves from a business stand point I get it... I don't like it but I get it. It may very well end in some season ticket holders not renewing their tickets though.

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by mygens on Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:23 pm

I could not disagree with GENSADMIN  MORE , rationalizing a sellers theory is perhaps in the owners best interest certainly not the fans ,,especially season ticket holders who have been waiting since 1997 for a team to go to the memorial cup , thats a long bloody time , i'm not here to see a team compete year in and year out without ever being really in the hunt for the championship , this IS OUR BEST SHOT in a very long time . Partly because of the quality team we have currently but also because of the weakness of the east .
 sure the west is strong , because they are adding pieces for the run , we are not thus far and its VERY concerning to me .

why bother building for the future if you're not ever going make a run for it , we are currently in the top 4 teams , top in the east , with goaltending and injuries anything can happen ….GO FOR IT NOW !

WHAT YOUR SUGGESTING IS MLSE APPROACH , PLAY WELL ENOUGH TO KEEP EM COMING , dont REALLY BUILD A WINNER ITS TOO EXPENSIVE …….

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by mygens on Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:29 pm

TRADING LAUGHTON for eries , , london,'s guelph 's 2n dround picks is just stupid , what would those picks be ? 35 0r 40 th overall picks ……….think about it ?

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by Oshawa fan on Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:27 pm

I think the jury is still out on Twohey. He has done a better job than at least one of the recent GMs (Mr. Selwood). It is easy to look back and say what did not work. He did a nice job picking a coach.

Dundas could be a useful player if he could stop taking dumb penalties. The acquisition of Hunter Smith was a good one. He should be a key next season.

This is a challenging year to be a GM. The Gens have overachieved in most people's eyes. The Gens probably don't have enough to make a Memorial Cup run but they could be close. Buyer or seller is a tough decision.

I put little stock in rumours until something actually happens. I am waiting to see how this plays out.

I think it is always difficult for teams to trade their best player and still keep the average fan happy (I don't mean the fans who frequent this board). The owner wants to keep the fans coming out. Trading the best player (and now Team Canada captain) would be tough thing to explain to the average fan.

I've been going to Gens game almost as long as the Croc. I hope to keep going for a long time to come. If the GM decides to trade for the future or go for it now I am good with either.

Trade deadline day might be an interesting one.


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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by GensAdmin on Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:40 pm

mygens wrote:I could not disagree with GENSADMIN  MORE , rationalizing a sellers theory is perhaps in the owners best interest certainly not the fans ,,especially season ticket holders who have been waiting since 1997 for a team to go to the memorial cup , thats a long bloody time , i'm not here to see a team compete year in and year out without ever being really in the hunt for the championship , this IS OUR BEST SHOT in a very long time . Partly because of the quality team we have currently but also because of the weakness of the east .
 sure the west is strong , because they are adding pieces for the run , we are not thus far and its VERY concerning to me .

why bother building for the future if you're not ever going make a run for it , we are currently in the top 4 teams , top in the east , with goaltending and injuries anything can happen ….GO FOR IT NOW !

WHAT YOUR SUGGESTING IS MLSE APPROACH , PLAY WELL ENOUGH TO KEEP EM COMING , dont REALLY BUILD A WINNER ITS TOO EXPENSIVE …….
under that strategy you'd be willing to watch 4 years of bottom feeding in order to make a significant run this season?


Last edited by GensAdmin on Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : watch the language)

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by mygens on Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:26 am

Yep I'd rather watch a bottom feeder for a few years , at least we would get to p first round picks , than to give up a chance for a legitimate run for the championship for , meaningless 2 nound round picks ( which would really bte be 3rd round picks . I've been a season ticket holder since 1981 , really tired of mediocrity , obviously Gensadmin , enjoys wallowing in It !

I'll take this one step further , if Twowey trades away Laughton and or Altshuller I will take a pass on season tickets next year until we have new meaningful ownership .

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by Macker88 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:46 am

I think being bottom feeders for a year or two is part of junior hockey. If you wanna win a memorial cup you have to go for it. This Generals team is the best in the East, but they'd be a middle of the pack team in the West. We need to upgrade if we wanna have a chance vs the West.

Look at Erie, brutal for 2-3 years, best team in the CHL now. Because of finishing dead last and 2nd last for a couple years. Look at Ottawa, a power house for years, now they're a bottom feeder. Belleville was in the Memorial cup in Kitchener a few years back, went to the east finals last year. Now there in last. Guelph just two years ago were god awful, fired there coach an looked like a mess. Now arguably the 2nd best team in the CHL.
And finally Windsor, back to back memorial cups. Prior to that run, very bad, only got good by finishing so poorly, it allowed them to draft guys like hall, Ellis & henrique.

Now you'll say what about London & Portland in the WHL. Being like these teams is not realilistic. London and Portland drafts & trades for NCAA committed players an top Europeans an offer them things other teams can't. They have deep pockets and an NHL like organization. What teenager wouldn't wanna play there, coupled in with their winning pedigree.

With the exception of London, every team that wins a memorial cup is usually horrible the following year or 2 years after. Repeating is almost unheard of. Id much rather win or get to the Memorial cup then consistently finishing top 5 an being bounced in the first or 2nd round. Do I wanna be bad for 5 years, no. But the way the Gens draft, by the next time the O host the memorial cup we'd likely be contenders again.

Ill always watch the Generals because there the closest OHL team to me, but if they sell its gonna be very tough to return to the GMC this season, knowing what might have been.

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by Macker88 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:53 am

Just to add to my post,
If the Generals go for it this year an dont make the OHL final of course there will be backlash. But that's part of the gamble, if your gonna gamble you might get burned. But I think there in a good position here even if they don't make the OHL final an well waste What Laughton would of got us.
Next season with Altshuller gone, Laughton gone and Suellentrop gone. They still return Brown (could go Pro, but likely will return), cole Cassels, josh Sterk, hunter smith & Michael dal Colle. If for some reason they struggle.. Cassels will get a Gaunce like return, Dal Colle will get a huge return ( I mention trading him because he'll likely make the NHL after one more oHl season).

What I'm basically saying is, will still be able to cash in on assets next season, even if we mortgage the future this year to make a run this year

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by hockeybeats on Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:20 am

I don't think they need to sell the farm to make a run for it this year. This is a pretty good team. They could add a depth player or two without giving up too much and still have a pretty good run this year while being okay for the future.

I definitely wouldn't be selling being in first-place, I think that would be a very odd decision to say the least but I don't agree with mortgaging the whole future and giving up a bunch of picks to win now either. Consider me a fence-sitter.

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by Macker88 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:20 am

Hockeybeats, I tend to agree with you. While a player like Radek Faksa or Ryan Hartman or a defensemen like Slater Koekkoek or Trevor Carrick would certainly upgrade the Generals significantly, I think this team can be upgraded by adding smaller pieces.

Nick Latta from Sarnia would be a great OA pick up. He's a PPG player, has some toughness & fiestness to his game as well. Good PK'er and would fit on the 2nd PP. You have to think given he is an OA and only 1 real contender has an OA spot, his price tag will be relatively low.
Ryan Van Stralen is another OA I'd like to target, if we get Latta, I feel this make Hughes expendable, as Latta is a centre. Van Stalen is a winger with 30 goal potential playing on Ottawa's top line. A deal would likely see Hughes go back to Ottawa along with mid round picks or depth prospects.

I do think the back end needs some support as well. A two way guy who can help the PP and possibly a depth guy. Are D seems to be some what injury prone so going into the playoffs 8 deep would be a good idea in my opinion. I hate seeing Brown fight all the time as he's arguably are best defensemen an he's much more valuable on the ice. So a fighter would be nice, but not a must have as some guys have stepped up an shown their willing to drop the mits.

Projected forward core with my proposed moves
Dal Colle - Laughton - Cassels
Van Stralen - Sterk - Latour
Smith - Latta - Dundas
McDade - Harding - Manchurek
X's - Busch, Hore, Wallace

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by jaycro on Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:08 am

I think that if the Gens could pull off what was suggested above, I would make a run for it this year. If not, I think they will be stronger next year with the extra year of maturity and experience and if they could move Laughton and Altshuller for  a bundle. The problem is, the Storm don't have a 2nd until 2019 and the Knights until 2017! Erie would appear to be our only trading partner as they have their own 2nd until 2017 as well as OS's and Ottawa's in 2014, SSSM's in 2015 and London's the following year. The problem is they don't need Laughton with all the firepower they need with McDavid, Burakovsky, Brown, Fox et al. Guelph might want Altshuller but would have to offer two younger players, probably Fabbri and /or McFadden. They won't want to move either. Looks like a challenging situation!

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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by steamed on Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:52 pm

WILLSPEN1966 wrote:As a former season ticket holder. I agree 100%. The reason I dumped my seats was because the price got way out of reach and we got zero for our dollar. I guess with Twoohey's first move we will find out what direction they are taking. But I can't remember every a first place conference team ever being sellers.


Can't really say anything about the cost as I don't know your financals ,but I think it's cheap entertainment and as far as zero for your dollar, I saw some great hockey players that came thru the Civic & the GMC both Generals and opposing players, Love the Gens win or lose cheers
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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by StingRay5 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:28 pm

steamed wrote:Can't really say anything about the cost as I don't know your financals ,but I think it's cheap entertainment and as far as zero for your dollar, I saw some great hockey players that came thru the Civic & the GMC both Generals and opposing players, Love the Gens win or lose cheers

Right there with you. Love the Gens win or lose...... However winning is so much more fun.
Great entertainment and hockey value for the $$$.
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Re: The Gens are sellers. Not good news

Post by Macker88 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:10 pm

I'm with both of you, I'll always be a Generals fan and support the team win or lose, I've been going to games all my life, an I doubt that will change. But as a fan it is kind of disheartening to hear the rumours of a team with the potential to make a lengthy playoff run being sellers.

We where really bad, prior to John Tavares coming in, and even his rookie season, but since then we've been pretty solid for the most part. I definitely enjoy being a fan of a team that's been in the mix of things the past few years, but it's real frustrating to have teams on the cusp of winning and never getting to the OHL Final or the Memorial Cup. Will I stop going forever if the team sells this season... No, but I will stop going this year as it makes no sense to sell.

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