line up changes...

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Re: line up changes...

Post by core33 on Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:23 am

I don't remember too many injuries in 1997. They came within an overtime goal for a chance to get revenge on hull. I remember the year well. 1999 bulls had their top line out for the cup. 1997 was great drafting, some trades which didn't help.

Marc savard a gritty leader. No way. He was a massive points producer, that's it, Ryan Lindsay was the heart and soul. That reminds me, Savard has made 0 appreances around the rink since. While we have seen a number of players from that team come back including Sweitzer, Garner, lindsay, tripp, macneil, hogan....

Mygens, review the gens 2nd rd picks in the last 15 years. Slim pickings. I've posted the list in the past. Notables are high 2nd rounders Dean Howard, David correntte. And trading a 2nd for sudburys Nick Quinn.

Id be more concerned with players with just gave away basically. Aquino, odell, archer, mayleko, cowick, tsmikalis.


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Re: line up changes...

Post by steamed on Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:13 am

mygens wrote:I feel this owner cares about 1 thing , filling the rink and selling beer and hotdogs , money !  We need someone here who really
If I Had the millions I would buy out this owner and ship him packing back to Windsor , i know with the right local ownership we could turn this ship around and build a real winner in 5 years

You don't have  Millions  Rolling Eyes there were NO local owners that wanted the team when it was up for sale thats why Davies and now Rocco own the team. Rocco is here to make money not lose, when that happens I'm sure he'll sell as he is a busness man first fan second,I personally think he is doing a fine job compared to the last owner. Also Rocco only gets a percentage from Beer sales and hotdogs, were he makes his money season tickets holders and tickets sale.
I've been a fan for a long time,though ups and downs with the team,suport them win or lose. We have an OHL team which alot of cities that want one don't, ask a North Bay fan how they felt when they loss the Centenials.I count my blessing that there is an OHL team in Oshawa and more than likely in my life time, thanks to  Rocco who knows the history of the Generals and what they mean to the city even if he is not from this area.

Once a GENERAL always a GENERAL cheers
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Re: line up changes...

Post by nerfherder on Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:43 am

Macker. No point wasting your time with mygens. If you hate this so called losing so much go cheer for another team. Your points are negative all the time it is more frustrating then losing the conference finals. No sports team should intentionally tank. That is a ridiculous comment. Mygens get your facts straight before commenting please, you didn't even know the draft had already taken place.

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Re: line up changes...

Post by mygens on Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:29 pm

Nerd herder , please stick to hockey talk , I respect mackers 88 knowledge and views although we disagree on some things , it's good dialogue , you on the other hand are just into insulting people and taking shots , if you have nothing else to offer to the hockey dialogue , please butt out

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Re: line up changes...

Post by mygens on Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:02 pm

Macker88 , I don't suggest moving all our players , vets to begin the year , but rather wait to see how things unfold by dec , if by then we are not one of the best 3 teams in the league , not the eastern conference , then I would definitely move guys to get those 2nd round picks for the next years draft , and drop , just imagine what good drafting could accomplish with top 1st round and several top 2nd round picks for a year or two . The gens haven't had that opportunity in a long while , we been trying to build with 3rd and 4th round picks , and while some my blossom ( McGinn) most don't , imagine the job , Twowey and smith could do with the higher picks , to me it's worth the wait of a couple of down years , it's worth a try ,

What the gens have been doing the last 10 years or more hasn't worked not for me ! We'll see how it unfolds this coming year , are we going to really compete for the Ontario championship against the best of the western conference , not with this lineup ! Not in my view !

Time to try something new don't you think ? It's just so obvious to me , your core players have got to come from top 1st round picks (top 5) and 2nd round picks , fill in the rest with 3rd , 4 the rounders , good drafting , you will have a real winner , I think Twowey , and Smith know hockey players , they just need the drafts to do it , and an owner to let them do it .


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Re: line up changes...

Post by archer_gens on Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:12 pm

Without trying to get to off topic

1) Pro Sports Teams are a business
-successful business's make money
-your choice as a consumer, buy or don't buy the product

2) No team can win every year.
-Odds of winning the League 1 in 20 (you should win once every 20 years)

3) Success is not only measured in Championships.
-never ever, ever! were we gonna win the whole thing this year

4) A hockey team is more then just players
-coaching staff (improved under new ownership)
-Management staff (improved under new ownership)
-Franchise Stability (franchise is in no danger of leaving Oshawa)

We had a team ranked to miss playoffs or to be swept in the first round. We finished 1st! That's 8 places better then some predicted, to me thats a huge acomplishment. We also got in 3 playoff rounds thats 2-3 rounds more then predicted.

This team over accomplished, was a huge surprise and a huge success.

Why are you calling for the owners head? Seems to me after years of tanking (missing playoffs 4 of 6 years) that we finally might be on a path to success. This team was destroyed by previous mangement, and things could be much worse. Do I want to Win? Absolutely! Are we on a path to win? who knows. But I believe the Gens are much better off with current ownership then they were not to long ago when we may have lost the team completely.

I am frusterated as a season ticket holder that we aren't winning titles. However you can' blame ownership for the fact that we haven't won since 1997 because that owner wasn't there since 1998.
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Re: line up changes...

Post by 5forfighting on Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:16 pm

Too all those complaining about Cassels and how he has to step up his game....I think he more then did that in the playoffs. He had 17 pts in 12 gms. He was a huge force. Not to knock Laughton, but while he was sitting his 3 games after a selfish penalty, it was Cassels and MCD who were out on the ice pulling that team along.

I feel Cole has always been in the shadow of Laughton (Jenner, Andreoff, Lessio etc) He's never gotten the chance to prove himself. Maybe now with Laughton gone you will see him start to pick up his game.

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Re: line up changes...

Post by nerfherder on Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:43 pm

mygens wrote:Nerd herder , please stick to hockey talk , I respect mackers 88 knowledge and views although we disagree on some things , it's good dialogue , you on the other hand are just into insulting people and taking shots , if you have nothing else to offer to the hockey dialogue , please butt out

Taking shots at people ? There you go again exaggerating the truth as I made a comment against exactly what you said but that's taking shots against people and insulting. Give me a break. Macker commented on your lack of knowledge as well. Don't tell me to butt out when I am disagreeing with your harsh comments and lack of respect to teenage kids playing hockey. Insulting Cole Cassels directly naming a player is disgusting. Grow up!

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Re: line up changes...

Post by StingRay5 on Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:30 pm

StingRay5 wrote:Who needs to step up?   To me Cole Cassels needs to take his game to the next level.   He had some flashes in the playoffs but I would rate his season as not holding up to expectations.
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Re: line up changes...

Post by StingRay5 on Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:31 pm

Macker88 wrote:I'd agree with Cassels, to me despite his 70+ points he looks lackadaisical at times. He needs to elevate his game next season, and I think he can. I think if he plays with Dal Colle and Smith a 90+ season is not out of the question.

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Re: line up changes...

Post by StingRay5 on Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:32 pm

5forfighting wrote:Too all those complaining about Cassels and how he has to step up his game....I think he more then did that in the playoffs.  He had 17 pts in 12 gms.  

I watched almost all of the playoff games except for ones in Peterbrough and North bay. Cole got the points and did raise his game but quite honestly I was expecting much more from him during the season. He has the ability and was recognised for that by getting drafted as high as he did.

I'll stand by my comments that he needs to step up next year. He won't be a Laughton but can be a dominate force.
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Re: line up changes...

Post by StingRay5 on Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:37 pm

I am enjoying all of the discussion. We should remember that we are here because we are passionate for the Gens and Junior hockey. If we all agreed on every issue this would be a boring discussion board.
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Re: line up changes...

Post by Macker88 on Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:42 pm

StingRay, my comment on Cassels where more aimed at next year. If he wants to reach the level of a Laughton or Jenner in all around play he needs to step up his game. But I'm completely Satisfied with his output this season. An would say him an Hunter Smith where our most effective forwards throughout the playoff run.

MyGens, I'm not going to comment on your whole post as I've already given my views on next season an proof of why they shouldn't sell of assets. As far as you saying will
We really compete again the west next year... Yes. Things will be a lot closer. Guelph loses the majority of their forward core and a few crucial defensemen. Erie is gonna lose Fox, Burakovaky, Brown, Curtis, Gaunce, Pelech, Abraham, MacDermid, Dansk..those are just off the top of my head. Windsor loses Koekkoek, Vail, Janes off the top of my head an those guys where huge parts of an already weakening team. London will be the powerhouse in all likelyhood but they could lose Domi, Horvat, Anderson, Tierny, Stolarz on top of Zadorov, Mermis, Basso. The Soo will likely be the top team along with Owen Sound an those two teams are teams Oshawa can compete with an will have similar rosters to. Plymouth will be better as will Kitchener and Sarnia but not threats to the championship. You have to remember every team loses guys, and teams that go deep and win titles usually have huge roster turnovers. Oshawa is in an amazing spot as they went deep and only lose Laughton, Suellentrop and Altshuller they where with us for the full season.

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Re: line up changes...

Post by nerfherder on Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:46 pm

StingRay5 wrote:I am enjoying all of the discussion.  We should remember that we are here because we are passionate for the Gens and Junior hockey.   If we all agreed on every issue this would be a boring discussion board.
Nailed it on the head. I don't like when some lead the discussion to a negative place when they had such a good year. Kids played hard this year and after such disappointment with more talent the last bunch of years this was a treat. Calling a kid out by name on here is terrible to. I guess some people just have negative thoughts and I feel sorry for them.

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Re: line up changes...

Post by Macker88 on Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:15 pm

I agree that being negative on here isn't exactly the best way to go about things. But sometimes discussing an individual's play you need to put his name out there so people know who your talking about. I'm not one to bash a player, but lets say Laughton is playing selfish is it bad to acknowledge that an discuss it amongst other fans. Saying a kid like Harding is overrated is another story, he's 16, unestablished and played limited minutes. Saying Cassels needs to step up his game to reach the level of a Laughton or Jenner is a personal opinion. It's not a knack on his current game it's a fact. He had a good season, but he needs to elevate to reach their overall level of play. Both those guys where NHL ready in their 4th OHL season, will Cassels. Not currently but he has the ability to be on that level next season... If he steps up his game a bit.

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Re: line up changes...

Post by mygens on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:08 pm

Yep pretty much the way I feel re Cassels , I'm sure he's a very nice young man , but we evaluating our team here like armchair , quarterbacks it's entertaining

I personally don't think Cassels has it to lead this team higher , if I'm wrong that would be more than ok with me , I'm just not going to bet the farm on it , this is about evaluation , sorry nerd if it offends you , but this is a blog about how we feel the team is doing and where we would like to see it go , my only overall assessment is , I would like to build this team from scratch with top picks rather than trying to Tweek the team every year , hoping to get it right , get lucky , that formula has not worked for me , perhaps finishing first on the easy was a monumental thing for some of you. , fine , you are the lucky ones , cuz that's all we got , we actually sucked for a top team in the playoffs in my opinion and as soon as we ran into a tough , well coached team , it was over in. 4 straight , I did not enjoy any of the games as we looked terrible , check the stats they speak for themselves ,

It's all good guys , just my opinion don't panic !

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Re: line up changes...

Post by nerfherder on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:30 pm

Fair enough mygens. And I don't mind the talking about a player just when terms like overrated get used on a first year rookie whom many including myself think he is a solid player and will improve and just in general tagging someone as a lazy a$$ whom played pretty well in most opinions does not seem fair and doesn't seem they come from someone that understands the game fully and just looks at stats...hey that's my opinion and I will just agree to disagree

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Re: line up changes...

Post by mygens on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:34 pm

Ok good , re Harding I guess I was initially a big fan for this kids future , but the last half if the season he wasn't improving in my view , injuries ? Homesick ? Possible , let's see what he does next year hopefully good things as he was our only 2nd round pick , and you know how I feel about those

Regarding complaint about Cassels or Laughton , no holding back there from me , they are both professional hockey players making money we can only dream of here , they are open game as far as I'm concerned , and I was disappointed in both this playoff season , even though Cassels put up some points ( mostly on the PWP , I suspect ) .


On the bright side , Hunter Smith , turned out to be a huge win considering he was originally considered a project , really loved watching him become a major factor on this team , cudo' to dj smith for bringing him in ., and Peshenig became our most solid D man ,, best plus minus on the team , yep I am a stats guy !

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Re: line up changes...

Post by Macker88 on Thu May 01, 2014 2:22 am

As far as Harding goes he saw his ice time reduced when Smoskowitz was brought in. It's not that he wasn't improving its that he wasn't getting on the ice as much. I'm sure the kid hit a bit of a wall as the rigours of an OHL
Season often have an effect on 16 year olds. In my Opinion he consistently improved, towards the end of the season he was still improving just playing less and in a smaller role. But was an effective face off guy and penalty killer, two important roles for a 16 year old.

Cassels & Laughton are drafted by NHL clubs they don't make more then anyone else in the OHL. As far as critiquing them, hey if you think they played bad.. That's fine. I believe any OHL player should be able to deal with criticism, as they are trying to become NHL players and that's something NHL players deal with on a larger scale on a daily bases. Laughton's playoff was in my opinion average. He didn't elevate his game from the regular season like I was expecting. However I feel Cassels stepped up in his absence on the score sheet. Cassels isn't a gritty player like Laughton & Jenner in past years. He's a skilled guy who is adding a physical side to his game. He's more a secondary guy in my opinion at this point in his career, but based on his yearly progression since joining the OHL I believe he will be able to take on the role as "the guy" next year along with Dal Colle.

Hunter Smith was on the roster last year, he was just hurt. He was a surprise in his progression though. But that is something you need to consider when critiquing guys like Harding. These kids sometimes take a year or two to adjust to the OHL, and seeing glimpses of brilliance are signs that a kid will eventually be a major factor in the league. It's hard to argue with you in saying Petschenig became are best D, but please stop basing your opinions on stats. Here is an example of why you shouldn't base opinions on stats, a goalie can record 40+ wins in a season. But could let in 5 goals a game an the team consistently wins 6-5. Where as another goalie could let in 1 goal a game and the team consistently loses
2-1, an that goalie could only have 10 wins. Who's actually the better goalie ?
There are players like Bradley Latour, in my opinion a good checking 3rd line player. But puts up tons of points because he played with Dal Colle and Cassels or Smith & Laughton. Collecting assists on goals from highly skilled
Players simply by cycling the puck. Or having a high plus minus simply by being on the ice with those guys.
*Please don't think I'm knocking Latour as a hockey player, this is largely just an example. Latour is a gritty forward with some offensive ability but he definitely benefits from playing with elite level guys. Had he played with Wallace and Dundas you can't tell me he'd still produce what he did. While if Laughton or Dal Colle played with them I'd say their point totals would be close
To what they racked up.


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Re: line up changes...

Post by Macker88 on Thu May 01, 2014 2:26 am

Ps I meant to say the team loses 1-0 not 2-1 in my example about stats

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Re: line up changes...

Post by mygens on Sat May 03, 2014 10:46 pm

Ok , but I rate goalies not on wins at all but by save % firstly and GAA , secondly , since the latter also reflects team defense , regarding , Latour , sterk , etc , these are good players , that I think give us what they give us , 2 rounds of playoff hockey , not taking you to the promised land as second line players , on a top team , like Guelph or London , or north bay , they would be 3rd line most likely 4 line guys

Re Cassels , has offensive ability , set up man lots of assists , not a real goal scorer of significance , to be as good as Jenner he needs to skate and get into the play a lot harder , he's more of a perimeter player , doesn't really like to exert himself most nights , waits for the play to come to him , rather than make it happen , kind of like Laughton played in the playoffs this year , and result was we couldn't keep up to Northbay

I personally don't expect anything different from Cassels next year



Btw both Laughton and Cassels signed entry level contract , both probably got around 600,000 , they are effectively pros

And after next year we are screwed unless , we sell to get 2nd round picks , we need to get our second round picks back for 2015 2016 , because they will likely be very high picks

Should ever have put ouselves in this situation with no seconds for 3 years !,,,,, I had no idea !

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Re: line up changes...

Post by mygens on Sat May 03, 2014 10:53 pm

Oh by the way I'm a big believer in plus , minus stats , winning teams have very high plus minus players , usually , plus 30 and plus 40's over a whole season , most of our best players were, around plus 10 or plus 12 , peschinig was our best at plus 20 I believe , very good for defenseman on a team that doesn't score much

We had very good overall team defense this year , second best in the league actually , our problem was 5 on 5 we don't score much , our PWP , was very good carried us ,

Stan Butler , effectively shut down our PWP , and we couldn't score otherwise , we lose easy

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Re: line up changes...

Post by mygens on Sat May 03, 2014 11:00 pm

Most of the current team was built on 3rd and 4th round guys , guys drafted that low generally are less offensively skilled players , it hurt us big time , Cassels 1st , Laughton 1st , and dal Colle 1st , Harding 2nd round , not ready

Simple not enough skilled guys on our team , and we are hanging our hat on them again next year for the most part , short of Laughton , and sully

Expecting a vastly different result next year guys , is mostly wishful thinking , not based on hockey sense




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Re: line up changes...

Post by jaycro on Sun May 04, 2014 3:44 pm

My thoughts exactly mygens,

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Re: line up changes...

Post by Macker88 on Sun May 04, 2014 10:14 pm

Just a few thoughts, I actually agree with you completely on Cassels. He does some things you mentioned but is inconsistent in doing them, an that's his real issue at this point. He'll get his points once again next year, probably a slight increase in points. But to reach Jenner/Laughton all around play he needs work.

Latour is a 3rd line player on a conference champion, he shouldn't be in a top 6 role. He brings some things offensively, but his instincts just aren't those of a playmaker or goal scorer. To me he's a good 3rd line player, provides depth scoring an like I said is a 3rd line play on a Conference Chapionship team. So yeah I agree again.
Sterk however I believe he can be a 2nd line Centre on a good team. I like that he plays with an edge, he has a real playmakers eye and can finish. He's not a goal scorer but if he plays with Dal Colle and Smith I think he can be very effective. He had a big improvement from year 2 to year 3. Next year will tell what he really is.

One thing I'd like to hammer home with you though mygens is, all picks in the top 100 are very effective. Players in the 3rd and 4th round are very talented kids and are crucial in a teams future success. Not having a second those picks become even more important. I agree we need seconds but their tough to acquire. An you can't logically sell until at the earliest the Christmas break, more likely the deadline though.
The top teams hit on round 1,2,3,4 & 5 picks plus they'll
Find a gem in the later rounds. I believe it was Guelphs 2010 draft, possibly 2011 where I believe 4 of there first 5 picks are their top guys. Minus Kerby Rychel who was traded for. I understand where your coming from with the 2nd's because yea there very important, but then Generals tend to trade 4/5/6 round picks like there useless when they're not at all.

To me our 5on5 play needs to improve, I'll agree with that to. Outside of Dal-Colle & Laughton no forward was able to create their own offence. Most came off odd man rushes, the cycle or special teams.

But mygens I think you need to rethink next year. We have a big returner core. Everyone around us minus Kingston loses a lot more. An even Kingston loses a few guys and possibly Bennett. On top of that all the bad teams don't really get significantly better. Ill go more in depth with this topic in a couple days with a full what to expect piece

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