Jeff Twohey gone

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by Oshawa fan on Tue May 06, 2014 9:49 pm

steamed wrote:

I think Davis was a good owner and would of been if he hired the right staff but he hired the wrong staff to run the club.
I think †if he would of hired the coaching staff and GM what we had the last two seasons we would not be going thourgh this again †Crying or Very sad
:

I would disagree with this. John Humphries was a good owner. Davies hired his buddies and look what the results were.

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by Macker88 on Tue May 06, 2014 10:19 pm

ag48, if Twohey was fired because he refused to do as the owner said. Then absolutely the owner is an idiot. I disagree with mygens theory that we need to blow up the roster for next season, and believe his views on how a winner is built. But I can 100% agree that the owner is an idiot.
I myself am not a season ticket holder, but I'm a Durham area resident so I grew up a Generals fan and see about half the Generals home games each year, and many OHL games in general for my job. If Twohey was fired for a disagreement, It will be really hard for me to support the generals when the owner could care less about the club. This is just ridiculous, I feel awful for Twohey.

Just a thought.. Not sure if it warrants any thought, but with the owner so concerned with profits, was Twohey's contract the issue? Was he paid to much ? Is naming Roger Hunt the Acting GM a way to save money as he's now the assistant coach and GM. Not only would Hunt now have two positions with the team but the assistant GM position is now vacant. So in all that's 3 positions filled by one man.

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by nerfherder on Tue May 06, 2014 11:11 pm

ag48 wrote:interesting Macker88 your comments regarding the owner of the Gens" He's an Idiot "that seems to be the sentiment of one "my gens" has been implying for some time now on this message board. Glad to see someone else is having the same thoughts. Just be careful "nerfherder" may take offense of you naming names and using strong words like "idiot".
This does seem kind of odd getting rid of the GM after such a good season. As far as Lindros is concerned if he is hired we will then all know that Rocco is not thinking of the season ticket holders and the future of this team.
Just my thoughts.†Very Happy
You might have to agree that calling a grown man an idiot and a teenager playing hockey is a little different. But if you insist on starting something ag48 ......SHOOOOOT. Maybe if that happened Twohey would still be employed right? That's what you're thinking right? Be honest.

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by ag48 on Tue May 06, 2014 11:36 pm

hey nerfherder still sitting in the weeds. i new i could get a comment from you. i have never seen anyone call the players idiots or a$$ as per your comment in a previous message. Rather than jump on the folks posting messages with there opinion which is by the way everyone's right, let's see some of your thoughts on the team players,coaches and ownership, should and could be interesting.......... SHOOT AWAY!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by ag48 on Tue May 06, 2014 11:52 pm

Hey Macker88 thanks for the response. it's always nice to read your posts, they are always posted with respect for other poster's opinion's unlike some on the board. Keep up the posts they are always informative.

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by nerfherder on Tue May 06, 2014 11:57 pm

ag48 wrote:hey nerfherder still sitting in the weeds. i new i could get a comment from you. i have never seen anyone call the players idiots or a$$ as per your comment in a previous message. Rather than jump on the folks posting messages with there opinion which is by the way everyone's right, let's see some of your thoughts on the team players,coaches and ownership, should and could be interesting.......... SHOOT AWAY!!!!!!!!!
Do you even read the posts there bud? Read again. Not what was said at all. Anyway I won't bother with you as you obviously have an agenda here. Your lack of knowledge by the things you yell out at games as you probably have never played the sport is quite noticeable. Oh sorry that's my opinion and most of the people that are in ear shot of you. So don't you go on here making crap up about jumping on "folks". One person made a comment I didn't agree with and you take it to a new level. That was long over so move on and don't you dare put words in my mouth there pal.
Now get back to it. You want a comment about ownership. If what is said is true I agree with Macker 100%. I also agree with Macker re our team next year. Have a nice night.

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by mygens on Wed May 07, 2014 1:51 am

Macker88 , to answer your question re lindros putting fans in the seats , the answer is simple really , media hype !!!! The team would draw quite a bit of interest from the fair weather fans and some hard core nhl followers to catch a glimpse or just curious perhaps that the gens are going 'pro ' with big Eric , won't last long of course but it would likely be a short term gain which is where Rocco lives anyhow

Rocco is not building anything here other than interest in the team to drive the franchise up when he decides to sell , just my view on this guy

He's never going to sell off at the right time to build thru the draft like I would like to see the team do , so you need not worry , he'll keep the team in the middle of the pack perhaps even top 10 , to generate the promise of hope that the teams makes a couple of rounds if playoffs , and with a lot of luck perhaps further

But not a true championship team , he's not that kind of owner in my view , year to year get what you can out if it.





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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by mygens on Wed May 07, 2014 1:53 am

Yep that's right , Gens organization is a mess , again !

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by mygens on Wed May 07, 2014 1:59 am

And I agree john Humphries was a good owner , he lost some interest near the end of his tenure , but overall , very good , and we had I believe 4 trips to the memorial cup under his governance . , 83 , 87' 90, 97

Best years of the gens in my view

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by Macker88 on Wed May 07, 2014 3:09 am

The way I look at it is appealing to the fair weather fan is less a concern the appealing to the season ticket base. They're you loyal fan base, an stick through good times an bad. When things get so bad your loyal season ticket holders question renewing their season ticket packages after 10-20-30-40 years that's when you know you've screwed the club.
It's hard for me to speak on behalf of a fairweater fan because I'm not one. But, many people I speak to would rather buy a ticket to watch a winning club then buy a ticket to watch a losing club with a former NHL player GM. Personally I have friends that aren't into hockey at all but they where intrigued with coming to see the generals this year because of their position in the standings. All hiring Lindros will do is have people google the Oshawa Generals. It won't even boost ticket sales 1%. The boost will come from having a young team that went to the Conference Finals.
If Rocco seriously thinks a publicity stunt is the right way to go about things, again he's an idiot.

Personally if I'm an owner trying to sell off my team at it's highest value, well I'd have to think 3-4 years of consistent title contention is best. When you consistently ice a winner, fans consistently are interested in coming to see the team play. There for ticket sales increase, consession sales increase, apparel sells increase, market value of the club increases.

One can only think, maybe the owner is why these American Prospects don't wanna come here. Maybe this is why import picks don't wanna come (Blueger & the kid from Owen sound that we traded for, can't think of his name at this time). I'm very very upset at the direction of the club.

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by Macker88 on Wed May 07, 2014 3:31 am

If you wanna build the Generals to be a team that you can mention with the London's, Kitchener's, Windsor's and teams that our known consistent winners, you need to build from the top out.
You need an owner that's willing to drop money into the club, and not stick his nose where it doesn't belong. Lets be honest 98% of owners don't know jack shit about the sport. They just like it/wanna own a sports team.

Then you need a president, a guy who knows hockey, has played, been a coach, GM .. Someone who your confident can make the right hires an fires. Don't leave the hiring and firing up to the owner. Owners don't know the game well enough to make those calls.

GM, someone with experience.... At the Junior level ! It's not the NHL, it's not the AHL it's not tier 2 it's not midget AAA it's the OHL. There are many difference between how to build an NHL roster and an OHL roster. Heck hiring a GM from the Q or WHL is even different. You need experience. Sure there are some instances where you may take a risk on a guy an he pans out, but the odds are always in favour of a guy with experience.

Scouting staff, again hire guys that get it. Some OHL teams have scouts that are 80 years old that think a 6'6 kid who can't skate is still the way To go. You can't hire guys because they used to play for you or your doing them a favour. Hire the right people !

Coach, hire a guy what knows how to get the most out of his players, but also someone who communicates and teaches and improves the kids. A junior hockey coach and an NHL coach are totally different in what they're required to do. (I'm not knocking DJ here, just my opinion.
I think DJ is perfect for the Gens).

Drafting - The Import Draft and minor midget draft are important, a premium needs to be put on having numerous selections, using those selections on kids willing to come an compete for a spot. The import draft is huge to, if you notice, many teams that are successful on a yearly bases they hit on their import picks. I know not many teams have European scouts. It might be wise to sink a little cash into that.

Players, the players themselves need to believe that the team is committed to winning an winning is a tradition. When guys come in from the moment they step into the room they need to no the culture of the team is winning an anything less is unacceptable.

Bottom line it starts from the top an if the top is the problem don't expect the In between to be successful.

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by mygens on Wed May 07, 2014 11:58 am

ask yourself this ! why is Rocco making out that Twohey left on his own for other opportunities , when he actually fired him ? what kind of game is that ?if he didn't like what the Gm was doing with the club , just say so , instead of trying to absolve himself of the responsibility .. I just don't like how Rocco operates !

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by mygens on Wed May 07, 2014 12:02 pm

re lindros , obviously its a publicity stunt as you put it Macker88 otherwise , why bring in a guy with ZERO experience at this level , when the next two years will be critical to the gens future ..


simple if the Lindros rumours are true then Rocco is just out of his league and mind !

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by mygens on Wed May 07, 2014 12:11 pm

macker88 , exactly right , top organizations are built from the top down , and through the draft process as the main building tool , obviously scouting is huge , finally coaching that can motivate and teach the kids .

this club has been struggling since 1997 with a defined direction in place , so many changes in the organization , make that almost impossible year after year , we are in shambles , and thus can't compete with the top clubs , being competitive to the point of two rounds of playoff hockey , doesn't do it for me !

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by StingRay5 on Wed May 07, 2014 12:43 pm

mygens wrote:ask yourself this ! why is Rocco making out that Twohey left on his own for other opportunities , when he actually fired him ? what kind of game is that ?if he didn't like what the Gm was doing with the club , just say so , instead of trying to absolve himself of the responsibility .. I just don't like how Rocco operates !

This is what is smelling most to me as well. If you fire somebody then be honest about it.
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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by nerfherder on Wed May 07, 2014 2:16 pm

Good GM,s are like good sales reps. They have contacts Networking skills and respect amongst peers. Jeff Twohey has that. Not sure of Hunts skill set. Not sure Lindros would have these skills. I'm not sure of the age of Rocco's son but I would not be surprised if and when he is of draft age you see him here and I hope it is not a Connor Burgess situation like Sudbury has. †Just when I thought things were going in the right direction and this happens. I guess the only thing to do is see what happens. I still believe DJ is a good junior coach but I don't see his constant yelling style working in the pros. I still think they can ice a pretty good team next year. Look at North Bay as anything can happen in junior hockey.

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by steamed on Wed May 07, 2014 3:13 pm

I didn't want to start another post because I think it belongs here:
Does anyone feel depressed about the current happenings? I do †pale†2 years ago I thought we were on the right track, we hired a experiance GM in Twohey,Great move, then hired a good coach and supporting staff, things were looking good after the Selwood years and his coaching staff.
and now we are going backwards again. I'M DEPRESSED ARE YOU....
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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by mygens on Wed May 07, 2014 3:36 pm

I have had reservations about this current owner almost since day one , i was pleasantly surprised with the job DJ smith did , but when you have a micro managing owner like Rocco , its not a secure situation , i have never felt this guy is here long term , get in , make his money , have his kid play? then get out .

hes not developing a model for long term success !

ya , it sucks !

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by steamed on Wed May 07, 2014 4:10 pm

mygens wrote:I have had reservations about this current owner almost since day one , i was pleasantly surprised with the job DJ smith did , but when you have a micro managing owner like Rocco , its not a secure situation , i have never felt this guy is here long term , get in , make his money , have his kid play? then get out .

hes not developing a model for long term success !

ya , it sucks !


Boy does it suck†Laughing†I can see the Generals with there 1st overall pick †Rocco's kid what ever year he's of age †drunken
Merry Christmas son †Laughing
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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by ol'genfan on Wed May 07, 2014 4:27 pm

I have posted on occasion in the past, trying to make personal observations of the Gens hockey product. I believe equally, everyone has a right to interact on various Gens subjects, but in doing so, hoping for success for the players first, fans and lastly leadership.

I am writing this post, not having insider information as some appear to have, but would like to make some comments specifically related to the past two years of Gens hockey. I believe that the past two seasons have been moderately successful, and have fallen short of my expectations, for a number of reasons.
I believe that the team two years ago by talent and the way they were coached during the season, should have contending for the OHL championship, at worst case. I believe failure to make it past the second round, didnít rest on the GM nor the players, but the coaching staff. During the year, the coaches strategy was a run ní gun style of attack where they rolled 4 strong lines, nobody could keep up to them. They had the skill, size, toughness to outwork, outhit and outplay teams. There was a fixed game plan and it was held thought-out the second half of the year. However, from the start of the playoffs, the coaches changed their game plan, which was a shortened bench to 6-7 forwards and 3-4 defence, which I thought was a rookie move under pressure. This dramatic shift from what made the team successful during the season, neither the Dogs nor Colts, could have kept pace because they lacked the depth to keep up with that strategy. †It was then I first realized, that the coaches appear to put a plan together before games and donít adapt during the game. Consequently, when the plan of shortening the bench was implemented at the beginning of the playoffs, key guys were overplayed. The forwards got tired, since they didnít have the legs, they didnít attack and then dumb penalties. With the defence, the key three were overplayed and ended up taking huge risks by jumping into the play and got burned. The season ended on a sweep.

This past season, I expected moderate success, but it depended on returning players maturing and specifically Laughton coming back. I believe everyone expected the Gens would sell given the roster but no one would have guessed how weak the east would be. To all Gens fans surprise, we had Laughton return and certain players matured with opportunity but it was driven by a short bench and a hot power play within a weak conference. I think the coaching staff was successful within an unusual set of circumstances, however producing the same results, an unexpected sweep when they should have won. †
As for deadline deals, I think they were ok but certainly didnít capitalize on the opportunity and the coachesí strategy more closely resembled a traditional short bench like the previous yearís playoffs. †I still believe the Gens should have beaten the Battalion; however, the two teams didnít match up in the Gens favour. The Gens were led by special teams, two lines and a coach that doesnít adapt his game plan during the game. In comparing the match up, the Battalion team through-out their year, didnít take a lot of penalties, played tight structurally, had even strength team scoring and rolled their lines. This was a recipe for disaster for the Gens, and another sweep to end the season.

My conclusion on why the GM was let go, probably went something like this. The leadership minus the GM discussed the failure of the past two years. I believe they concluded, it came down to not having the right personnel at the right times, as the reason for the lack of success. The coaches two years ago, would say that certain players that did not fit their mold and were not moved out. This past year, the right type of players to win were not moved in. Therefore, the person fully responsible for player movement is the GM not the coaches, and now you have your answer for the failure.

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by ag48 on Wed May 07, 2014 4:49 pm

nice post nerfherder, finally some of your own observations, and this is not to be taken any other way then stated.

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by Macker88 on Wed May 07, 2014 11:05 pm

I have to echo the feeling on the coaching staff. I feel this coaching staff, while successful has a hard time adjusting in game when their game plan isn't working. I actually believe they have a hard time adjusting their game plan period. It was evident in the Conference Final against North Bay. Their game plan was not working and yet game In an game out they kept doing the same thing. Replacing Dundas or Carlisle or Altshuller was not the issue, the game plan was.

The year prior, I also agree with the fact the Generals shortening their bench come playoffs was a huge mistake. They had the ability to role 4 lines and 3 D pairings and that was to their advantage and thrn they went down to to 2 lines and 4 D, which basically neutralized their own advantage. I understand in the playoffs you play the guys you trust and guys who make an impact, but when all 4 lines can play.. Why are you sitting guys.

It's hard for me to knock DJ Smith, because he is a good coach and I mean he did win the Coach of the Year this season, But.... How does it take you 3 games in the conference finals to sit Chris Carlisle.. He had been terrible all playoffs. The direct cause of the game 1 winning goal for the Battalion. Why do you play rookie Desrocher on the power play an have Vande Sompel on the Bench... Vande Sompel is an offensive d-man & a power play specialist... Desrocher made strides to improve his game, but he's slow retrieving the puck, he does not like to go into the corners first ad has poor foot speed. Consistently running this guy out with another defensemen with poor foot speed in Josh Brown is a terrible pairing. Taking Dundas out, arguably are only really grinding meat & potatoes type player against North Bay, a team that is all about the physical grind it out style of play. Made no sense! Especially considering how well he was playing in the playoffs.

This whole system the generals have of chip and chase... Aka the D-man passing it to centre and a forward chipping it in to the offensive zone. It doesn't work if you can't forecheck, it doesn't work if you chip it to a place where your gonna lose the race to the puck. Dump and chase only works if your forwards dump the puck to a place where they have the chance to retrieve the puck. What the Generals where doing was just giving the puck away every time. The Battalion D knew what was coming. They had one D force the dump in an one D waiting for the puck to instantly move it back up the ice. Had they done a soft dump or a little chip off the boards an got the big Battalion D turned around they would have been much more successful... It's what Guelp has been doing. An hey it's a pretty simpe an noticeable adjustment.

After getting that all out, I actually have changed my opinion.. Are coach seems to get overwhelmed when things don't go as planned and seems to just ride it out an hope it gets better. His adjustments are lineup changes. The more I really look in depth at this team, the more it worries me.

Dal Colle - Cassels - Smith
Latour - Sterk - Pu
Dundas - Harding - Wallace
Manchurek - McDade - Busch

Vande Sompel - Brown
Peteshnig - Templeton
Carlisle - Desrocher

Appleby
Brodeur

That's the projected lineup.
To me we need another top 6 forward.
We need to add an OA defensemen to the top 4.
Upgrade on Chris Carlisle as an OA.
We need to add some size and physicality up front.
A player like Ben Thomson who can score and play a physical game would work wonders for the team next season.
We really need to hit on our Import picks. We have the Benefit of having an open OA spot and two Import spots. Those could come in handy in acquiring guys for cheap once other teams decide on who they wanna keep as
OA's and Imports.

I have quickly looked over prospects and projected other teams rosters and without a real in depth look, even with that projected roster we should be top 4 in the East.



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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by mygens on Thu May 08, 2014 10:10 am

great post my man , excellent assessment of the lack of coaching smarts , cost us the series with north bay ,

but what i love the most is you're coming around to realizing perhaps coincidently , that the gens don't have the horses to be a top team in the league , top 4 in the east is not going to cut it for me , not going to beat the west .

if we stand pat , we will have nothing to build with the following year , unless of course you feel you can build a winner with 3 rd and 4 th round picks AND this coaching staff , I don't , it will be more of the same for years to come and this is what I'm afraid will happen with this ownership !!!

and in that case i'll give up my seats and go to the games occasionally when i feel like it

have had enough of this Smile

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by ol'genfan on Fri May 09, 2014 12:17 am

Some very interesting thoughts about the Generals Hockey Club, and the various assessments on how the team has fared in recent years.

I donít make line combinations because I am not the coach, I will however, comment about the idea that the Gens need more ďhorsesĒ. I am not sure how true that is, since Northbay is a very good recent example of not having many horses to win. The Gens have had studs and thoroughbreds the past two years in comparison and havenít achieved the success given the talent pool.

I do wish to offer my perspective in what I think are the needed ingredients for a successful junior hockey franchise.

Shrewd, mature and talent-assessment makes a good GM Ė I do believe the ďapparentĒ dismissal of Jeff T was both unfair and unwise, if true. I think Jeff T was a stabilizing figure in the hockey operations, as he appeared to be very straightforward, calm and honest. I believe that he was mature, well known amidst the league and hard working. I also believe that his tolerance for risk is very low; therefore, he would never pull off a blockbuster deal, which many wanted in Oshawa. This in my mind was one of his only weaknesses but it also makes him more patient in development which can protect a teamís chemistry.

Strong adaptable hockey knowledge, with clear communication skills and ability to develop youth makes a good COACH: I do like DJ and his coaching staff, as they are passionate young hockey guys and they are good for the Generals. However, they act at times, as if they are still playing not coaching. It appears that they create a game plan, however get a little too emotional during the game and become less tactical. I think this will come in time because they will become more removed from the game as players. That being said, I do think they both over-coach some players and under-coach others and this is very evident when you sit behind the bench or in some cases anywhere in the rink. The last area is development, since this is a league for 16-20 yr olds, an area that is not just about giving opportunity but truly developing players. I think itís almost a 50\50 split here regarding player development, which I think is very obvious. This too will grow because they are passionate hockey people.

Wealthy business people, which care about a community and our also hockey fans make good OWNERS: I believe the best JR owners can be hockey fans not nepotistic parents, that should live within the community and are wealthy enough to see it more as a service to Canadian culture then only a profit centre. I will let you be the judge on that?

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Re: Jeff Twohey gone

Post by the croc on Sat May 10, 2014 4:13 pm

I leave the shwa and all hell breaks loose. Who knew. At least you get Bonnie Lindros who tried hard to destroy us before. Meanwhile in a tent by the the lake in Kingston(right next to the PEN) Dougie Gilmour fires Todd Gill and word on the street today is that he is hiring Kurt Muller a neighbour from up on Loughborough Lake. Do Dougie and Rocco drink together? My sympathy to the great fans of Durham region and the beloved SHWA. I will not buy season's tickets down here until the owner sells(SPRINGER) and takes Mavety and Dougie with him. The elderly croc.

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