Coaching(?)

Give me a break. Windsor's been scoring six goals per game over the past four weeks and the Gens held them to two goals over 53 minutes of hockey, none of which were at even-strength. And DiPiero has no defensive system? I know BS when I hear it.

i think we need to work on better defence..... that being said i thought we did pretty good defencively in windsor.... even in saginaw.... i mean ya we let in 5 in saginaw but we held there shots to 14 less then ours

As far as I'm concerned Dips is part of the 'old' lawsuit regime. I'm not one for a 'make work training' situations or programs. Close only counts in horseshoes! Windsor was ripe for an upset and I am concerned that this coach has not instilled or manufactured a winning attitude to make it happen! Stats are for losers. What ONLY matters is winning and the positive momentum created as a result. I have seen very little (if any) of that under the current 'leadership!' Losing seven in a row early into a season speaks volumes. The writing is on the wall IMO! It is time for 'expectations' to de raised and elevated! It is far easier to sit and wait and hope ... it is more productive to demand excellence or make the tough changes necessary! This is not a new philosphy ... just one that has een missing for a very long time!

I still believe it is way too early to even talk about a coaching change.
Yesterday, I thought Zador gave a great effort.
Some mistakes resulting in penalties were the main cause of our problems as witnessed by the Windsor PP goals.
I was happy to see some work on regular defensive pairings:
# 6 and #24
# 5 and #7 who were plus 2
#23 and #25
I am still concerned that #23 doesn't seem to stay on his side in our end, causes some disruption for his D partner and gets him out of position.
The power play still needs work and may require the juggling of some players
I thought our boys all worked very hard and was sorry to see us come away without at least a tie
Sincerely

You can juggle the powerplay all you like: this team does not seem to have any real legitimate goal scorers, Thomas included and Hayes has gone cold. We need some Donati types without the attitude!

I am not suprised that this topic arose again. It is the same thing year and year after year. At least as long as this board has been around. Three four times a season?

How can any coach succeed here? Truly. Looks at the complaints this board had last year. The current Coach has been actively addressing them. But change is not instant and a quick fix isn't the solution for long term success.

A coach being employed here will noy be given a chance to do all the things this board is complaing about...again...... They get 1 year.

(mabey, for this current coach is was the end of his first year, what was it 10-15 games and this board had him fired?).

If they don't meet the expecations of this board...and from the sounds of it...gotta be first place or bust. Fire them

That is an incredibly short sighted point of view.

I for one think this coach has improved this team. And the game right now is really exciting and fun to watch. We have a chance to win every game. How is that so bad???

Well Hayes, I for one have not said anything about getting rid of the coach, what I said is there is a problem. If you don't see it, you must be happy with the Leafs too. The Gens have won 4 playoff rounds in the last 10 years. If you are happy with that, then so be it; most on this board, and also people not on this board are not satisfied with that. The ownership has to sit down and audit every single position in the organization. Yes, that includes the coaches; it also includes the scouts, management, players, etc. It is time to bring the winning attitude back to Oshawa. Battling to stay out of last place or for that last playoff spot is not what Oshawa should be about. They weren't in the far past and they shouldn't be today. The Gens by all accounts only lose the OAs next year. Everyone else can come back (they only have 3 potential OAs on the club this year for next). Is that good? You would think so, But, are these kids the right ones to right the ship? Is the staff the right one to guide it? It all needs to be looked at and addressed. The thought of 'Lets see what happens' is long old.

After Mr. Davies left the ownership the new owner said he undertook an assessment of the organization top to bottom. As a result the President was fired, the coach was replaced, the GM was then fired, the Scouting staff resigned/fired and was replaced, a new GM was hired (Dips), at least one other front office member was dismissed and a new President has been hired.

To me its clear the orgainzational audit has been done, a very thorough housecleaning occurred. Significant changes have occurred on both the hockey and operational end. Its time to give them a chance. Its only been 10 months since the trade of JT & MDZ. So the rebuild has just begun. Lets see where we are this time next year when i think it is fair to say dramatic improvement should be seen or changes need to be considered.

I personally like the way the Gen's are shaping up to be in the next couple of years but still have concerns about the ownership as now Davies is back and stiring up the pot and rightfully so Rocco is not the right man to own this team has his hands into every thing and that's what will hurt Dips and may cost him his job
I just wish we get this ownership under control and I thought it was going in the right direction when Deboer & Graves were onboard(Hockey people with hockey conections)

While I appreciate reading all of the posts on this subject, it appears to me that Dips may know who and what his problems are, and maybe trying, with other teams, to come up with a trade(s) to help the Generals. Obviously we won't know anything about this until it happens. Please give him some credit for this early in the season. As for ownership, if Rocco is as successful as people seem to think hi is, he must have a group of good people working for him in his various enterprises as he can't do everything himself. I would hope Dips has a green light to do things to improve the team.
Sincerely

Popbottle wrote: I would hope Dips has a green light to do things to improve the team.
Sincerely

Not without Rocco's concent 1st
I do like Dips I think he is a good hockey man and I hope has the green light to do what he wants to but something tell's me he can't.

Not without Rocco's concent 1st

I had to post that one line, seems you fans don't check who owns the team try going to the site and do some reading!!!

thought it was rocco and tulio?

or whatever his name is lol

gensman wrote:As far as I'm concerned Dips is part of the 'old' lawsuit regime. I'm not one for a 'make work training' situations or programs. Close only counts in horseshoes! Windsor was ripe for an upset and I am concerned that this coach has not instilled or manufactured a winning attitude to make it happen! Stats are for losers. What ONLY matters is winning and the positive momentum created as a result. I have seen very little (if any) of that under the current 'leadership!' Losing seven in a row early into a season speaks volumes. The writing is on the wall IMO! It is time for 'expectations' to de raised and elevated! It is far easier to sit and wait and hope ... it is more productive to demand excellence or make the tough changes necessary! This is not a new philosphy ... just one that has een missing for a very long time!

Windsor was ripe for an upset? No offense but that's like the Joker saying that he has Batman right where he wants him. Have you watched Windsor at all this season? They are an absolutely dominant team who will turn it on when necessary to preserve the victory. The Gens did great to hold a dynamite offense to two goals through 53 minutes, giving up a couple on the PP. However, when it mattered, Windsor turned it on and got a couple of goals for the victory. In no way were they ripe for anything except for an easy victory over a team that is completely overmatched by pretty much anybody in the West except Erie and perhaps Owen Sound. #8 in the west is better than anybody in the East division - and significantly better. If the Gens finish the season at .500, they will win the division. You can't possibly say anything about coaching when teams of such a huge disparity in talent play each other.

The Gens are a streaky team - they have a 4-game losing streak, a 5-game winning streak and a 7-game losing streak which is very typical of a young team. They also have used up their most difficult games: they no longer have to visit Windsor, London, Saginaw, Sarnia, Guelph or Plymouth. Those are all pretty much guaranteed losses for every team in the East. The Gens have only played 7 home games, the lowest in the OHL. Most teams have already played 10-12. The Gens have nine home games in January which is 26% of their home games within the span of a month. The record might be lower than you would like but that's because of the tough schedule. Watch this team propel themselves up the standings in January and February. Most of those games will be against sub. 500 teams and that's when the attendance picks up too so we will see a real home ice advantage.

UGENS wrote:Not without Rocco's concent 1st

I had to post that one line, seems you fans don't check who owns the team try going to the site and do some reading!!!

I'm surprise UGENS it was in the paper a while back stating by J.Davies himself saying that I guess I'm back as part owner because of Rocco never gave him what he owes him for the team by the deadline(I think it was June) .Thats why you don't hear Peter or Adam's name mentioned anymore,and the only reason that J.Davies name is not mentioned any were is that it is in courts or soon to be and dosn't want the team to be affected by the distraction it would cause so both parties came to an agreement to keep status quo till it is settled in court,now if you heard something that has happened as of late please tell.

steamed wrote:

UGENS wrote:Not without Rocco's concent 1st

I had to post that one line, seems you fans don't check who owns the team try going to the site and do some reading!!!

I'm surprise UGENS it was in the paper a while back stating by J.Davies himself saying that I guess I'm back as part owner because of Rocco never gave him what he owes him for the team by the deadline(I think it was June) .Thats why you don't hear Peter or Adam's name mentioned anymore,and the only reason that J.Davies name is not mentioned any were is that it is in courts or soon to be and dosn't want the team to be affected by the distraction it would cause so both parties came to an agreement to keep status quo till it is settled in court,now if you heard something that has happened as of late please tell.

Not sure what your talking about, it is on the Gens Website, picture et al. http://www.oshawagenerals.com/Ownership_live.php

haha thats what i meant tulio and davies

wow i need sleep

Thanks for clarifying my point OGF John Davies is listed on the team site under ownership. So there actually is two major owners plus some minor share holders who don't get much say in the running works of the team is all. Not sure if and when ownership question will be settled, as I'm not a fly on the wall at the teams office so no incite here !!!

I'm not sure that all this is an excuse or reason for what is happening with the lads play or the status quo of the Gm & Coach at this point .

UGENS(Karon)

I wonder when the 'at least we outshot them', 'at least they kept it close', and 'let's see if he can develop a team', mantra first started around here? Sure was never that way until all the experts showed up! The 'Shwa never settled for mediocrity and it sure showed up in on the scoreoard!

It's not a mantra, it's being realistic. If you somehow think a different coach would take this team and make them a contender this season, I've got some Nortel stock I'd like to sell you. It's okay to have high standards but it takes a couple of years for that to materialize. That's actually just like the stock market - if you're impatient and panic every time a stock has a slight decline, you're gonna lose. Wanting to change personnel with every losing streak is the worst possible way to run a hockey team.

Any team that doesn't make the playoffs in this incredibly lousy division should automatically fire their coach. IMHO the Gens will make the playoffs fairly easily. I happen to think Dips is a great person but he lost me as a coach with how we lost to Belleville in that final playoff game and he hasn't done anything since to make me change my mind.
I'm always fascinated with this type of discussion though. Easy to figure out the people who want Dips gone, but for those that support Dips, I would be interested in hearing your feelings on what has to happen to have you flip and think a new coach is needed. Is it a particular date on a calendar? A number of losses in a row? Missing the playoffs? Never no matter what?

Hockeybeats, you are the most vocal supporter based on your history with St. Mikes so maybe you can start this off and others can add their own opinions too.

A fair question - progress through the four year cycle. Last season was a cleaning house season and the record with that team was something like 7-22 since the Tavares/Del Zotto trade. The end of that year is a write-off with new players coming in and learning the system. With an off-season to train and learn De Piero's systems and coaching style as well as being a year older for the younger guys and with the talent this team has, they should play around .500 hockey. Four games under is nothing to fret about especially given the difficulty of their schedule. They should be around .500 at the end of the season. I did get a little overly excited when they were leading the division for a brief time but really, anything over .500 from the young team they have is a bonus. Next year, especially thinking what they might get should they trade Parnham, this team should be competing for a division title. So for the question of what it would take to make me think a coaching change was necessary, it would depend on the season. This season, it would take a team that was significantly below .500 (10-15 games). Next year, I would be disappointed with .500 and expect that they should be in the top 4 of the conference as a minimum and even better the following year. In addition, if the team didn't look like it was working hard, that would also be something that would make me think a coaching change was necessary regardless of the record. That clearly isn't the case. This is a young team that is learning how to win. As such, they have a hard time closing out games - getting the tying goal when down by a goal or keeping opponents from getting the tying goal. That's why they lose so many one-goal games (4-7 thus far).

Some are bringing up the historic success of the Generals and that I am somehow new to this tradition and thus, I'm accepting of mediocrity. That isn't relevant. This is a completely different world than the late 1980's when the Gens were headed toward their last Memorial Cup. Back then, you could do things in two-year cycles because there were less teams involved. Those who say the Gens were successful every year are fooling themselves. They stayed out of the basement but they would be .500ish one year and then contend the next. They did this for a long stretch. Now that there are 20 teams instead of 12, that's harder to pull off. They had a terrible run in the early part of this decade because they did not make the appropriate adjustment to a 20-team OHL. I wasn't watching then really but my assumption from what I hear is attempting to win too soon and not properly drafting and developing young players. Coming in last place a couple of times put the Gens on the proper four-year cycle and helped by being able to draft JT, they built for 2008 and did everything right, went for it but it went bust. This season is the restart as they build for 2011 or 2012.

Beats there was 20 teams back in 1990 when the Gens won the Memorial Cup not less , they just happened to be in different locations at the time, then now . So your point is moot!!!

I have supported this team for forty years and I have say my friend the Generals did have and still has a tradition to be proud of, but it seems to have gone off the track and it needs to be righted and I really hope soon .

I honestly can't recall seeing this many lads asking out of this team, like seems to be happening now, in the past few years. I can't put my finger on it, but something is truly wrong here and I hope it gets corrected and soon, it's not fun having your team be called the laughing stock of the league next to Kingston.

UGENS(Karon)

Careful Ugens, Beats is always right....just ask him