This just doesn't sit well with me ??

There has been one constant, and that is everyone wanting dipps fired.He will be with this club at the start of next season.He has had one draft to help build this club.Not sure to many coaches who could have gotten alot more out of this club.I suppose you same fans think ron wilson should be fired as he cant get a leaf team with so much talent motivated and out of the basement.There are more players on this team that should not be in the ohl, then those that should be.Dipps was handed this crap and needs some time.Bring back the four 16 year olds, berger, thomas, valentine, dehart, calvin, and the rest of them should be looking for jobs, cause i dont see much quality that they can give this team.If around mid to late november this team has not vastly improved then the owners should be looking for a coach. Let the bashing begin, i cant wait.

Gens Camper wrote:

NO MORE DRAFT GAMBLES - PLEASE - There are more than a few season ticket holders not renewing

What's your source? It's one thing to be overly critical, it's another to throw out made up facts. And if anyone is not renewing, I doubt very much it has anything to do with hypotheticals on who will and will not report next year. At least 80% of the fans in the GMC on any given night wouldn't be able to recognize the names Biggs or Lessio because they aren't currently on the Generals roster.

There has been one constant, and that is everyone wanting dipps fired.He will be with this club at the start of next season.He has had one draft to help build this club.Not sure to many coaches who could have gotten alot more out of this club.I suppose you same fans think ron wilson should be fired as he cant get a leaf team with so much talent motivated and out of the basement.There are more players on this team that should not be in the ohl, then those that should be.Dipps was handed this crap and needs some time.Bring back the four 16 year olds, berger, thomas, valentine, dehart, calvin, and the rest of them should be looking for jobs, cause i dont see much quality that they can give this team.If around mid to late november this team has not vastly improved then the owners should be looking for a coach. Let the bashing begin, i cant wait.

Good post. Unfortunately some here are living in a fantasy world thinking there is somebody out there who would be behind the bench and turn Andreoff into a 50-goal scorer and make Esposto the next Eric Lindros. At the start of this season, everyone was wondering where the offense would come from. I didn't think there were any 20-goal scorers on this team except perhaps Thomas and he has almost doubled that total. Fantastic. Jenner has 19 as a rookie, fantastic. Berger would have 20 if not for the injury. Hayes and Brown are sitting at 20 on the nose.

Would Hayes and Brown have more than 20 goals with another coach? No. And if you thought either of them were 30-40 goal scorers at the start of the season, you're either lying or you haven't watched them play. It's not that they lack talent, it's that they aren't first-line offensive threats, they are role players.

To the De Piero bashers, I ask this question: Who on this team would be producing more offense with another coach? For them to be a competitive team, you need at least three or four players to produce 30-40 goals. Please tell me which players aside from Thomas you thought would score 35 goals at the start of the season with your fantasy coach? I'm willing to bet the answer is nobody.

However , for them to be a competitive they need to KEEP THE PUCK OUT OF THE NET

Question , when is DIPS contract up

BOBBY ORR NUMBER4 wrote:However , for them to be a competitive they need to KEEP THE PUCK OUT OF THE NET

True but you can't win in the OHL without offense. Bailie and Zador are not experienced enough to handle the pressure of a situation where if you give up two or three, you lose 90% of the time and that's one reason why they lost their confidence at times this season, particularly near the end. The only teams in the OHL that could have a defense that's strong enough to win scoring less than three usually have an offense that accompanies it. It's very rare in junior hockey to have a team that could trap their way to being a contender with minimal offense. I think that's why some are criticizing the coaching - they think the Generals could have implemented a New Jersey Devils 1995 style of trap that would hopefully squeak out 2-1 or 1-0 victories. That doesn't work in junior. The goalies just aren't good enough, especially when they are only 18.

No offense = no playoffs. That's all there is to it.

If ownership ever wants to start consistently winning, filling the rink again, and eventually hosting the Mem Cup the coaching situation needs to be addressed immediately. I was in their camp when they 'almost' cleaned house in the 'Selly' era. At that time I called for an entire new regime and new start and new 'professional' leadership. With pending legal/financial issues 'Dips' was handed the keys to the house in a hopeful gesture. It is fairly obvious to all now the price the ownership & fans have paid for that move. After each season every player and COACH needs to be evaluated - the Ron Wilson's (and Brian Burkes) included. It is critical the right combination is found regardless of how painful it may be. The Gens are hardly a franchise that enjoys the luxury of giving the head coach as much time as he needs to discover whether he is the man for the job or not! It is impossible to know how much better another coach would have done in this situation - or which players they may have 'inspired' or developed! Or whether a different coach would NOT have lost 90% of the last 20 games to finish out of the playoffs - again! It does however ring hollow to complain that in spite of being here for 4 years that I was handed a crappy roster and NOW I need better players. Or even worse - 'most of the players on my team don't even belong in the OHL' ... but I sure do! What is (only) evident is the trend, track record, and direction the club has taken under the current leadership - and it ain't pretty!

Please tell me which players aside from Thomas you thought would score 35 goals at the start of the season with your fantasy coach? I'm willing to bet the answer is nobody (Quote)


Brett Parnham. Oh wait silly me a 50 goal scorer that jumped ship. With no return. Bad move. The writing was on the wall. He wasn't going to stay.

hockeybeats wrote:

BOBBY ORR NUMBER4 wrote:However , for them to be a competitive they need to KEEP THE PUCK OUT OF THE NET

True but you can't win in the OHL without offense. Bailie and Zador are not experienced enough to handle the pressure of a situation where if you give up two or three, you lose 90% of the time and that's one reason why they lost their confidence at times this season, particularly near the end. The only teams in the OHL that could have a defense that's strong enough to win scoring less than three usually have an offense that accompanies it. It's very rare in junior hockey to have a team that could trap their way to being a contender with minimal offense. I think that's why some are criticizing the coaching - they think the Generals could have implemented a New Jersey Devils 1995 style of trap that would hopefully squeak out 2-1 or 1-0 victories. That doesn't work in junior. The goalies just aren't good enough, especially when they are only 18.

No offense = no playoffs. That's all there is to it.

REALLY
ST MIKES GF 216 GA 169 PLAYOFF BOUND 6 MORE GOALS FOR 116 AGAINST DIFERENCE
KINGSTON GF223 GA 239 PLAYOFF BOUND 13 46
BRAMPTON GF 159 (wow) GA 169 PLAYOFF BOUND 51 FEWER 116
PETES GF 217 GA 273 99% PLAYOFF BOUND 7 MORE 12 LESS
NIAGRA GF 181 GA 228 99% PLAYOFF BOUND 29 FEWER 57 LESS
WOLVES GF 185 GA 257 99% PLAYOFF BOUND 25 FEWER 28 LESS

OSHAWA GF 210 GA 285 plenty of offence Very little defence ( WE LED THE LEAGUE IN CHANGING LIGHT BULBS )

Looks to me like they had plenty of offense to make the playoffs , DIPS just could not pick the right color sweater to stick in the net . We may have had the same result , but the sweater would feel NO PRESSURE. But he is a "Defensive specilaist"

We all know DIPS is your buddy , maybe you can provide him with a letter of recommendation , I will be shocked if their is one on Oshawa Generals Letterhead

Enough already and set this staff free

There have been a lot of good - GREAT coaches that have been replaced - Ken Hichcock got canned just before the Olympics but did alright helping Team Canada and how many jobs has he had.

Mike Kennan has had how many jobs - still lands on his feet
Oh Mike is out of work again - dO YOU THINK HE COULD HELP RIGHT NOW - YES - Come on down Mike

Maybe Adam Graves can talk Mark Messier into taking the job
- WOW - THAT would increase interest in the team

If the Gens 'clean house', as they rightfully should, you would/will be amazed at the dozens of considerable resumes that cross their desk! The phone will be ringing off the hook with outstanding inquiries! It will be no problem at all to 'upgrade' the entire staff in a very short period of time! If so ... it should be done immediately after the season ends in order to begin working & planning for next season!

BOBBY ORR NUMBER4 wrote:

REALLY
ST MIKES GF 216 GA 169 PLAYOFF BOUND 6 MORE GOALS FOR 116 AGAINST DIFERENCE
KINGSTON GF223 GA 239 PLAYOFF BOUND 13 46
BRAMPTON GF 159 (wow) GA 169 PLAYOFF BOUND 51 FEWER 116
PETES GF 217 GA 273 99% PLAYOFF BOUND 7 MORE 12 LESS
NIAGRA GF 181 GA 228 99% PLAYOFF BOUND 29 FEWER 57 LESS
WOLVES GF 185 GA 257 99% PLAYOFF BOUND 25 FEWER 28 LESS

OSHAWA GF 210 GA 285 plenty of offence Very little defence ( WE LED THE LEAGUE IN CHANGING LIGHT BULBS )

Looks to me like they had plenty of offense to make the playoffs , DIPS just could not pick the right color sweater to stick in the net . We may have had the same result , but the sweater would feel NO PRESSURE. But he is a "Defensive specilaist"

We all know DIPS is your buddy , maybe you can provide him with a letter of recommendation , I will be shocked if their is one on Oshawa Generals Letterhead

Enough already and set this staff free

The Generals are 15th of 20 teams in goals for - I'm not sure if that's your definition of "plenty" of offense. Did you read the part of my post that said that Bailie and Zador do not have the experience to handle a situation where two or three goals against means a loss almost every time? The goals against came from a loss of confidence between the pipes which filtered over to the defense as they put to much pressure on themselves to be successful at a younger age.

Let's look at the teams that you mentioned:

Brampton - Arguably the best goaltender in the OHL, fourth season, turns 20 next month.

St. Mike's - Carrozzi has already turned 20 and the Majors have been able to ease in a younger goalie who is being counselled by Carrozzi playing in front of a top-notch team that was built for this season - but has struggles down the stretch scoring two goals or less in 7 of their past 10 which is the only reason why their offense seems close to Oshawa now. Even though they are not the most offensive team, take away this brutal 10-game stretch and Mississauga was scoring 3.6 goals per game, a full half-a-goal more per game than the Generals - that's a significant difference, particularly when you factor in their stellar goaltending. Let's also not forget that the Majors have had 3rd locked for a long time and so it makes sense that they are coasting a bit right now.

Kingston - I wouldn't call 13 goals insignificant - think of how many games the Gens lost by a goal early in the season or how many OT games we've played in where 13 goals would be pretty helpful. Regardless, Kingston also has a 20-year old goaltender who is experienced enough to handle the pressure of a weak offense despite not being the calibre of a Killeen or Carrozzi.

Peterborough - Aside from the point that Peterborough is only marginally better than the Gens, Missiaen also turns 20 in a few weeks.

Sudbury has a 20-year old goalie and a backup who is also turning 20 this year.

Niagara is the one exception to not having a starter with four years of OHL experience, Visentin is putting up great numbers for a '92 goalie, the kind of season we hoped to see from Bailie or Zador. Maybe he's a much better goaltending prospect handling the tremendous pressure of playing in front of a weak offensive team better than Zador or Bailie. Maybe Niagara has the right mix of players that gives you a great defense and maybe Niagara just is better coached.

Either way, most of the teams you mentioned have experienced, mature, and in a couple of cases, all-star goaltenders that can handle the pressure of a weak offensive team in a way that Bailie and Zador clearly could not at this point in their career.

And can you give the "friend" of De Piero a rest, I worked with him with the Buzzers, I say hello when I meet him, he's not on my Facebook list or anything nor do we send each other cards at Christmas. And I'm not hockey staff, I might as well work at the concessions. "Staff free" - When I post here, I'm a fan like anyone else. I just happen to have the loudest noisemaker at the rink. I'm not in any decision-making capacity so the fact that I happen to have a gameday hobby doesn't make me any less worthy of posting on an internet forum. You're talking like I'm actually somebody of importance from the team management interfering with fan discussion.

Then I guess in spite of a very negative track record you have no issue with Dips - friend or not! Not so sure what you see in him - but you sure don't seem to mind critizing the balance of the squad! Be it unworthy OHL'ers, no scoring, no D, lack of disapline, or questionable goal tending decisions. Bottom line is that Dips picked this group (in one way or another) and distributed ice time accordingly. In your words, and in his tenure, a Dips led team has obvious offensive deficiencies, developed no meaningful defense, no idea about goal tending needs, and no effective specialty team strategy. His central function was to develop individual play(ers) and an effective team strategy. You can play with the numbers all you want but 'where's the beef?' My concern is why have so many of these (non) players shut down or quit altogether? Why all of a sudden have they turned so rotten? When a team has no interest in winning for a coach it's all over my friend. This final 2 month losing swoon should be the last nail in his own coffin!

Hockey beats

Bottom line in this league you have to find a way to keep the damn puck out of the net .PERIOD I would trade for a 20 y goaltender every year if that is what it takes

ps I enjoy your posts and glad you are part of the forum , I just don't agree with some of your arguements. That what makes it fun
I trust you feel the same in my regards

My focus in on the players who will be here next year.

The following players have all played well enough to earn lots of ice time next year and are not only better but show signs of being ELITE players next year that developed under De Piero: Valentine, Jenner, Thomas.

The following have showed enough promise that they might be part of a strong supporting cast but haven't proven themselves yet: Labardo, Pachis, Stokes, Alcock, Bailie, Zador, Clark

I haven't watched the defense closely enough or seen enough of Hope, Suellentrop, Wilson or McDowell to really comment but the players who will be here next year have improved and that's what matters because those are the players that De Piero actually chose to be on the team he is shaping to contend in a year or two.

Hopefully they also get DeHart and DeHaan back next year and maybe Berger too.

The rest of the players were not picked by Dips so I don't see why you keep insisting that he did. The players he picked are developing just fine. Sure Jenner has faded a bit down the stretch but he's got 20 goals and he's 16. As far as I'm concerned he's doing just fine despite some growing pains.

I'm seeing a pretty solid core developing and I don't understand how anybody could have watched most of the last 34 home games and not seen what I'm seeing. Maybe it's because I don't have the previous seven or eight years of frustration that you have because I wasn't watching the Gens pre-JT but as far as I'm concerned, the Gens look just fine for next year with regards to skaters.

Goaltending is my only worry because while young goalies take longer to develop, a permanent loss of confidence is possible and I hope that's not the case. Anthony Peters is a perfect example of a kid who had tons of potential but never fully developed because he lost his confidence playing on bad defensive teams. The first 15-20 games of next season will tell the tale next year on whether Bailie or Zador can be a true #1 goalie in this league.

I agree with most of what you say "Beats" and I always repect your input as it's very rational. I take issue with you though with regards to Stokes, Pachis and Clark. I like the latter's "feistiness" and he's young , but looks lost out there. Stokes had a good start here when he arrived from Guelph but I think he has gone steadily downhill since. Haven't seen enough of Pachis or Alcock to make a call on them but Pachis hasn't shown much to me or Chris as I think he wasn't dressed much the last few weeks and ditto for Alcock. Back to your lesson planning!

BOBBY ORR NUMBER4 wrote:However , for them to be a competitive they need to KEEP THE PUCK OUT OF THE NET

I find it interesting that Zador (18 years old), with good defensive structure in front of him, was one of the top goaltenders at the U-17 and U-18 World championschips, yet for the Generals he is not a "good" goalie.

Bailie (17 years old), according the OHL site, is 10-11-1-1 (one game under .500) on a team that is 13 games under .500, and last season, as a 16 year old, was 5-4-0-1 (slightly above .500 on a team that also finished well under .500), and yet, he is also no good.

Is it really the goaltenders that are the problem here or does the current defensive structure we have lead to too many opportunities in the prime scoring zone. Everyone has an opinion. IMO until the horrid defensive zone coverage is fixed, it will not matter who you put in net.

You're absolutely right. They both have the skill set but have lost their confidence - because of exactly the reason you mentioned. Hopefully it can be regained in training camp next year.

Lost their confidence? Who in the world do you think is responsible for NOT letting that happen? (hint: The same guy who would be taking credit for raising the skill and confidence levels of the players had team not imploded). I wonder if Dips has lost his confidence? Enuf of blaming the kids! It's time for the adults to step up for the lion's share of accountability!

Beats. I have to ask if you saw the game last night in Bellville? Balie was pulled after letting in 2 goals. On the second goal Dips pulled him for Zador. It looked from where I was sitting like he was interfered with on the second goal. Not to mention the bulls were on a power play. THERE WAS NOT A SOFT GOAL. How in the hell can you give this lad confidense doing that? Dips has left both goalies out to dry with a real beating. The defence is at times non existant. Yet he holds the goalie responsable I think. I'm not picking on dips. But when was the last time you seen him go up and give a pat or a way to go. for someone doing a good job. Or for that matter any of the 3. The players look like at times they are just going though the motions out there. We were in 5th place I beleve at the christmas beack. we are now in 9th. Can you explain who is ar fault? I just don't understand how we could just about stand pat at the trade deadline. we all said myself included that we needed a first string goalie. We needed help up front as well as defence. Where did we get help? Granted I know the ownership wasn't stable. But Oyr G.M. let us down. I think J.P. was a good P/U. But Alcock hasn't played much so how can we get a feel for him. sorry for the rant. but you can't put all the blame on the lads. But it eseems to me that is where you are putting it. Unfortunitly Dips has something to do with it as well. Ok let me have it folks but I don't think the lads are totally at fault here.

I'll blame the coach, if a coach relys on One player to make his defensive he is a fool. Dehaan injured is not an excuse. Dips supposedly has this great training in Defensive play, he is above his assistants I think he is over his head, great job before Christmas if he had a hand on how the team was playing. Where were these systems that were suppose to be in place, a powerplay, how to play defense, how to get your offense to become defensive minded. The was one player who did this naturally and we are losing him Jeff Hayes. Dips has to be accountable to the ownership I hate to be in his shoes you can only blame so much on the players. Isn't funny that when a player doesn't want to play for Oshawa or gets traded they play better on another team. Coaching has always been an issue, Burnett is coaching better in Belleville than he did when he was in Oshawa, the Donati's screwed him over. Let's not forget Brampton's Coach who couldn't coach in Oshawa, and Randy Ladoucer. Point if Dips can draft then maybe he can save his ass otherwise 2012 we will see a new coach.

Everyone needs to take a step back and realize Beats is playing a game with you. I used to think he believed what he posted but I've finally clued in (yes, it takes me awhile!!). Just this week he challenged a poster who was making a comment about season ticket holders not renewing and he challenged him saying he didn't have any facts and was making it up, yet in the very next sentence, he throws out a comment with an 80% statistic that is completely unsubstantiated - hypocritical or just playing a game? Then he makes a statement saying you can't win without offence in Junior hockey yet when the facts (which are important to him) don't support that as posted by another fan, the 'ya but' arguments come out.
The Generals will likely end the year with a winning percentage that starts with a .3 Do you know anyone in the world that wouldn't find at least something wrong with that and associate some of it to the coaching staff? Stop playing into his game for his enjoyment.
Beats, I'm impressed with your creativity
For everyone who is feeling a bit down about how the season is ending, hang in as the Gens will still grab the final playoff spot and you'll get 2 more games to spend your hard earned money on. Hopefully they can at least make it entertaining even if they don't win any games in the playoffs - plus Barrie isn't far if you want to see all 4 games.