the sky is falling!

5forfighting wrote:I have to agree with mygens, I know its only early but i think its time for Dipero go. I'm not sure what he has done to the power play- the whole get it to Christin thing wasn't working, so he went for a 5 forward pp...which didn't work either (having christin on the point was pointless he barely could keep it in) and now he's gone to a 2 d 3 f pp last night. The kids are so confused. I saw on two different occasions last night--the pp unit had no idea who was suppose to be out there. He's changing line combinations all the time. He shouldn't have to change any line combinations- its essentially the same team as last year. All he had to do was slide someone into Berger's spot once Andy returned and Voila! Puzzle back together! Pulling Bailie last night was wrong, 2 of those goals came on the PP and Bailie hasn't been playing bad. Give the kid a chance. The kid finally looked like he was being to build his confidence back up. Far as I'm concerned all he did was knock Bailie back down. That seemed pretty evident as I don't believe I even saw Bailie come on the ice at the end of the game- believe he went right to the dressing room. I know one parent told me (and no i won't say who, that's not fair to them) that the kids don't respect dips, but love Joe. Perhaps its time to move Chris out of the way and let Joe the lead the way. I'm not saying the sky is falling YET, but I can see it happening sooner then later. With any luck, I'll eat my own words in March--trust me, nothing would make me happier:)

Well said!

BOY sure glad some of you are not the GM

You would not see other teams move their # 1 picks - neither should we

Maybe move 1 of our underachieving forwards

Brown & Carlise will be fine with time - this league is a developmental

league - so let them develop, or in 2 yrs you will want to trade again for more Defense

Ok I am new to this message board but have been going to games for over 30 years and am a season ticket holder. I have viewed this board but never chimed in. Do I think the sky is falling? No....But I will say this. Dips to me looks like he has lost this team. I have coached, I sit behind the bench. This guy just does not get this team fired up before a game...during a game. There seems to be no system in place as the players just run around. Look at his line changes....guys just take their time coming on and off...no biggy it seems......All this stuff is the coach!! Some mentioned these are kids... You are right and who better to teach?? KIDS!! This guy needs some kind of control and in my opinion and I would say half our section would agree. You can't get rid of all the players but you can replace coaching.

hockeybeats wrote:"One parent told me that..."

Seriously, is this a GTHL gossip forum? Who makes this parent an expert on how to coach? Even if there were ten or twelve parents who didn't like his coaching, that has absolutely no basis in determining who is a good coach and who isn't. It's like teachers - some are popular with students and parents and some are not but it has nothing to do with who's a good teacher and who isn't. In fact, it's usually the opposite - the lazy teachers who give out high marks and do very little tend to be the most popular.

Coaching isn't a popularity contest.

We obviously interpreted the poster's comments differently. I read the work 'respect', not 'like', not coaching ability, not a parent saying they were an 'expert on how to coach', not a 'popularity contest'. You can dislike someone but still respect them and still respect their coaching ability. I get very concerned when respect isn't there and I've seen my own indications over the last couple years (seem to like but not respect). I've made my position very clear the last couple of years so I won't re-post old comments but let's just say I'm not surprised by this post. This is an incredibly talented team with firepower most would love to have and they will be fine as the season develops. At the very least they will be a fun team to watch and will be entertaining so sit back and enjoy. You can go a long way in this league on offense alone so it is possible they can make a real run at the Cup this year, especially considering this years OHL. I personally think they will make a deep playoff run but that it will be difficult to hold the Cup as a final result without some key changes but time will tell the story. At the end of the day, the only person's who opinion holds any weight is Rocco's as it should be as he is closest to the team and would be aware if/when a change should be made through his own observations and balancing out the financial implications.

There was a time when people were able to dislike but respect someone in authority. Times have changed. Not liking someone is now pretty much equal to not respecting somebody. People respect/like those who make life easy. When I hear "parent says the players don't respect the coach" at any level of hockey, rightly or wrongly, my first instinct is that the parent is making excuses for her son because he isn't getting the playing time the parent thinks they're entitled to and that's why I never take parent opinions of coaches seriously from minor hockey right up to the OHL. Of course, there must be some parents around able to keep an objective view of their kids but I've seen far too many that don't.

I can't say that's the case here, I don't even know what parent it is but it's hard to fight the sour grapes opinion that comes to mind because I've seen it so many times.

I will go on record today, this team will go nowhere with Chris dipiero as the head coach, he's done a decent job as gm but can't coach plain and simple , the problem is who do you get to replace him , that's something that should have been done in the off season . We are in a pickle here , we have a tonne of offensive talent , but no system , and a brutal power play , and nobody with enough talent to teach and coach these kids .
It's disappointing to me to have the likes of Jenner, Jensen , lessio , andreoff and Thomas. And still play as a 500 team , that's coaching my friends , or lack thereof .

With respect to ownership , well we may have ownership but we don't have leadership , it's bad news that a guy in Windsor owns the Oshawa generals , it's been awhile since we had a real owner who truly cares about winning something here , you need local ownership for that in my view !

Hockey Beats--dude you need to chill out!

All I was trying to get across was that IF there is a lack respect as this parent made it sound or problems in the dressing- then those problems are going to project on the ice!

This forum is absolutely insane sometimes-- people make comments and are entitled to their opinions. Everytime some makes a comments it doesnt mean another post has to ripe them a new one or fly off the handle and get so defensive. Perhaps some posters should put their writing skills to test on the ice--that might solve the defensive problem everyone is talking about (lil joke people...relax) My feelings are Dips needs to go and I can respect others opinions for saying he should stay as I'm sure they have valid reasons. LIke i said, I can only hope that I can eat my own words in March.

Chill out?

I said I disagree with listening to the opinion of a parent because with many criticial hockey parents, it's often sour grapes about playing time when they start criticizing coaches. I don't feel popular coaches (with players or parents) are necessarily good coaches. Was that particularly inflammatory?

To be honest, I see nothing wrong here from anybody. It's all good discussion. I don't see any threats or personal insults at all from anybody. Just the right amount of disagreement to spark a good discussion.

Yada yada ".........nothing changesv....... Dipiero has had enough time as head coach , he's not getting it done , show me stats that prove otherwise, he's brought in skilled kids and they are not developing under his tutelage , btw I'm not a hockey parent , if I were the owner I would keep him as gm find a new , motivated , inspired coach , that can teach the x's and o' s and motivate the kids on the bench with some enthusiasm , this guy is seriiously putting me to sleep ."....another thing has anyone EVER seen this guy smile ?, I mean really the guy looks as miserable as hell , take him out of his misery , wouldn't surprise me at all if in fact he hates coaching , that's certainly what it looks like to me .

i agree just let him be the gm and let Joe Cireella be the coach just saying what do ppl think about that.

show me stats that prove otherwise, he's brought in skilled kids and they are not developing under his tutelage

Since you asked...

- players like Valentine making the jump to the next level
- players like Boone Jenner becoming elite and prominent OHL players
- having several players drafted and a poor start because these players like Andreoff were away and impressing at training camps longer than we expected instead of playing with the Generals
- taking the expansion St. Michael's Buzzers in 2000 and building them into one of the best-run OHA franchises in the province and league champions in 2005 and 2006 as coach and GM
- the fact that when new ownership came in, a significant number of people in the Generals organization were fired and he wasn't (must be doing something right!)

However none of this matters if at the end of this season, the team doesn't meet expectations because as we all know with coaches, you're only as good as your most recent position. Also, as we know with many teams, it's playoff success that counts. The best teams aren't decided 10 games into the season. Remember when the St. Michael's Majors were 7-0? They've gone 2-4 since then. Remember when Saginaw was awful? Well now they look pretty good. The Petes were looking mighty good a couple of weeks ago. Ebbs and flows. When all is said and done, the Generals and 67s will be at the top of the division, the only question in my mind will be who is #1 and who is #2 because both will be close.

As for the accomplishments listed above, some will counter that they would have happened anyways because you refuse to give the coach credit for accomplishments but enjoy giving him blame for every minor thing that goes wrong. I get that. We'll have to wait and see what happens at the end of the season to see who's right because one of us will be proven right and one of us will be proven wrong. If I'm wrong, feel free to brag at the appropriate time, I'll still be here.

Doesn't mean squat what dipiero did 10 yrs ago , he's been the head coach for a good while now and the results just aren't there , the team plays poorly as a team , poor on D , and shitty powerplay , and it's been that for quite awhile , any offensive prowess we have shown come more from individual talent rather than team play in my view , why lose another year with this guy as coach , relieve him of his coaching duties so he can focus on getting us some defenseman , which we desperately need

The is the prime part of 'Shwa's drafting cycle. It is obvious that glamor boy tier II coach Dipper is obviously not up to the challenge barely sporting a .500 record. Serious holes all over the place. How long this continues to fester and rot is beyond me? This house should have been cleaned two years ago.

well said 5FORFIGHTING , we had two great lines last year , why is he screwing around with them , play with the other 3rd and 4th lines , or better yet the coach.gm should work on the D , because it is real a mess right now , playing Quinn 30 mins a game isn't the answer , he is being asked to do more than what he is capable , its not fair to him , the team , or the fans .....i mean why are we even trying to figure this out the answer is clear ...........GET RID OF DIPIERO AS COACH !

I DONT THINK CIRELLA IS THE ANSWER , I WOULD PREFER TO BRING IN A WHOLE NEW COACHING STAFF , this should have been done in the summer , going to be tough now , i don't think russo is very interested , and having graves and deboar has meant essentially nothing !!!!

Time for me to chime in. Beats, looks you are far out numbered now with DePiero as coach. I do agree to both sides to a degree. I believe DePiero should be fired, I would have done it in the off season and started this year with a clean slate. I am not convinced that he being let go right now is the best decision UNLESS there is someone to replace him. I don't think just putting a warm body there will do anything as the Gens problems run much deeper than that. Joe Cirella is NOT the answer as the head coach. For the Gens to fire Chris right now, they need someone who can do the job to step right in. The Gens defence has been an issue for years, well before Chris came on board and he has not fixed it. The Gens forwards have no idea what is going on when they step on the ice. There are no systems/plays in place for five on five, PP and to a degree PK. They just get out there and run all over the place. They will look up, see a guy and pass the puck behind him or 3 feet in the air. It is very frustrating to watch the talent that is on this team and get the results they do. They do need a new coach, but they also need some new players. In my opinion, they need the coach first, problem is, who? Timing is everything and the Gens missed the boat in the summer.

I can only imagine how the owners feel right now. In September, the Gens were picked by many (not just Oshawa fans, but the media, etc.) to finish the season as upper class in the East. 25% of the season is over and the Gens are a dismal .471 with the 9th most loses in the East....only eight make the playoffs.

To fire DePiero now right or wrong who knows I'll leave that dission to the owners but if you do Cirella is the only answer right now as I don't think there is a suitable coach right now avaiable in mid season,if DePiero is fired
your choice would be Cirella till the end of the season.I MY opinion something has to be done as it's clearly the players are not listing..

TipcoSr wrote:Time for me to chime in. Beats, looks you are far out numbered now with DePiero as coach.

Now? I was outnumbered on this two years ago.

I know Provincial Junior A and the OHL are different worlds but I have a hard time believing that a coach that can have that much success at one level and then suddenly have "no system in place" at the other level. The systems that win hockey games when dealing with the same age group are the same, all that changes is the skill level of the players. He wouldn't have earned the coaching job if he said "You know Rocco, I think they should just skate around until they score.". There obviously is a system in place, the problem is whether the players are buying in. Where I differ in opinion here is that if a player fails to backcheck, I don't think that's a coaching issue. That's the player being lazy. When elite players keep shooting high and wide and missing the net, particularly far side leading to a counter attack the other way, that's not a coaching issue. It's poor decision-making and poor execution.

I don't talk to the players so I don't know why they are playing so poorly. However, if it were true that they are playing for the name on the back of the jersey and not the logo on the front simply because some players don't like their coach, they won't cut it in the NHL, that's for sure. Only playing for coaches you like would be really selfish and I hope that isn't the case.

i spoke to someone in the generals orginization around a year and a half ago.. he basically told me that when sellwood was fired the team "quit" because they despised dipps.. and if you look at the record from that poin to the end of the season we went what.. 3-12, or around that.. and look now, no orginization, and no "fire" in them.... i do realize the team has completly different players, but still... maybe he's the reason Bigg's didnt report to the team

LX wrote:i spoke to someone in the generals orginization around a year and a half ago.. he basically told me that when sellwood was fired the team "quit" because they despised dipps.. and if you look at the record from that poin to the end of the season we went what.. 3-12, or around that.. and look now, no orginization, and no "fire" in them.... i do realize the team has completly different players, but still... maybe he's the reason Bigg's didnt report to the team

They liked Sellwood?

As for their record in that period after Sellwood, it was 5-4-7 and they won two playoff rounds. I think that's considerably better than 3-12. They swept the 67s and then beat Niagara in 6. They lost to Belleville that year in the conference finals. That was a formidable Bulls team, their regular season record was 48-14. Let's not pretend they tanked. That Gens-Dogs series in round two was a really good one and the Dogs were a pretty decent team. You talk as if that team rolled over and died as soon as he became coach. You don't win two playoff rounds if you quit, especially against a good team like Niagara was.

ok, i stand corrected.. i though it was worse, but still.. JT didnt rly score in the playoffs.. had a far amount of assists, same with mclean.. the only player that seemed to be playin hard was mitchell... and that was what i was told..

JT had 3 goals and 13 assists in 15 games. You think the high assist total was from a lack of effort? The opposition was on him like butter on toast. He adjusted his game accordingly and was able to create chances for his teammates. Same with Maclean. I'm not going to knock Mitchell but he, Parnham and Asselin ended up with lots of scoring chances as opposing teams focussed on the two big guns. The second and third lines came through which you need in the playoffs.

However, the hounds were already out after De Piero when the Gens lost in the third round of the playoffs simply because of the score in the last game (11-0 vs the Bulls) despite the fact that this was already the conference finals and the fact that the earlier losses were close games. There is a core group on this message board that has been wanting the coach fired since he was hired. That's why when they came out after the Gens poor start, I'm inclined to think there's some sort of wierd vendetta here rather than simply fans nervous about a poor start with a good team.

LX your are correct. Dips was not a liked or respected coach. He was brought in as a D coach which was a disastor. At best he was a cigar store indian behind the bench. He had a tier II reputation despite always being fed top players & not winning it all. Occasionally a team will win despite their coach(es). The best move made since Dips showed up on the scene was dumping Tavares for a boatload of picks and players that got the Hunters zilch in return. Since then we have seen zilch development of those players picks and even less team chemistry. The experiment is wayyyyy over!

gensman, right on cue!