line up changes...

Line up changes for tonight's game or should I say a shake up for tonight  

Vishal Hussain ‏@vishal_hussain  · 8m
Chris Carlisle will come out tonight for Josh Brown and McDade continues to sit. Templeton a game time decision.

Vishal Hussain ‏@vishal_hussain  · 8m  
Breaking:  Ken Appleby will start for Oshawa tonight in pivotal game four. 

I think it's a good move but also think it's too late  

I don't agree with appleby playing. It's not altshullers fault. You put yourself in a spot if appleby wins the game. You have to keep him in net the rest if the way. Or is this a courtesy play for kens hometown . Altshuller is one of the biggest reasons we finished first in conference.

the last 2 games I think Altshuller let in some pretty weak goals, and maybe the coach thing so also or he might want to shake things up, also I don't think you put your self in a spot if Appleby win's he's in. The Gens play better in front of Kenny and for some reason they don't play the same as when Altsuller is in.it's worth a change.
GO GEN'S GO

Steamed, if it wasn't for altshuller we wouldn't have finished where we did . Appleby didn't play much this year so you can't say they played better for him. He also usually got in against the weaker teams. Hope they pull it out tonight but don't make this altshullers fault. This wasn't a good match up for us all along . I would rather have Kingston or Barrie then the way north bay plays .

oshgens2k2 I'm not talking season I'm talking playoffs, do not disagree with you about the season.

Despite ultimently losing the game I was glad to see DJ finally took Carlisle out of the lineup. I believe he was the direct cause for the loss in game 1. He was terrible throughout the Mississauga & Peterborough series & continued to be poor against North Bay. He's considered a smooth skating offensive defensemen. But he doesn't produce offensively, and he makes very poor decisions with the puck in his own end and on the power play. He often shoots pucks into defenders shin pads resulting in odd man rushes or break aways.

As for Appleby starting, if its game 3 I don't mind the shake up. Game 4 I want my 4th year Vet in there. I mean it was likely Altshullers last OHL game an he goes out sitting on the bench. Game 1 Daniel was amazing, 2&3 mediocre to good at best...I mean I've seen him play far better. But he played well enough for the Gens to win. I would of expected Altshuller to have a big game tonight facing elimination.
I do understand where DJ was coming from though Kenny played well for us this season, will be the starter
Next year an he's in his home town.
I mean he was probably real fired up to play an that could have played in their favour. It was a calculated move an despite the fact I would of went with Altshuller I do understand his thinking.

I say next year is tank year , we need to start over build thru the draft , trade cassells , latour , sterk , and DAL colle , when the price is right , i would like to be a bottom feeder for at least 2 years , get first pick 2 years in a row and hold onto our 2nd rounders , pick up some more

we haven't really tried this approach for years , might be worth a try

would be nice to have that big team with speed for a change , a team of guys that play 60 mins and hate to lose ,please don't draft any head cases , that have agents that think they are God , pick kids that will be top junior players that will play 4 years , not necessarily the kid who is head and shoulders above every one but will only play 2 years

you go to the memorial cup with mostly top 19 year old guys , players that have been in the league a few years , not the likes of stamkos or tavares who only play 2 years of junior .

think about how london does it

guelph has been built thru the draft and now have a veteran team , they will smoke north bay !

Your Suggesting we trade our whole 1st line next year, Cassels a 70+ point guy, Sterk a 50+ guy, Dal Colle a 95 point guy & Latour a 50+ point guy... Why? Sterk and Latour will be here for 2 more seasons, they're undrafted and prime candidates for OA's in 2 years. We also have Hunter Smith who's now ranked as a top 50 player in the NHL draft. Guys like Wallace, Manchurek & Busch made big steps forward this year. An Harding will be a great player moving forward. Dundas can return or be upgraded as an OA. Throw in Cliff Pu coming in as our 1st rounder and potentially 2 Imports. We lose Lepkowski & Suellentrop. Brown will likely be back Florida is very deep in prospects. Carlisle will be back or upgraded on. Petchesnig will be our best D-Man next year. Desrocher, Vande Sompel both return as well. Throw in Templeton. An we have Appleby returning as a starter and Brodeur probably backing up. Again.. makes no sense to rebuild next year. Maybe 15-16 not 14-15.

8 of the 13 Generals forwards where Generals draft picks. Cassels, Dal Colle, Harding, & Laughton where all 1st & 2nd round picks. 6 of the 7 Generals d-men are Generals draft picks. Vande Sompel being a 1st. And 1 of 2 goalies where drafted by the Generals. In total 15 of the 22 players on the current generals roster where drafted by the Generals. So saying that we don't build through the draft is kind of off base.

If you go to the Memorial Cup with 19 year olds, well look at the roster the Generals will be filled with 18-19 & 20 year olds next season, So I ask again why would we blow it up next year?

Think of how London does it.. well then that just defeats the purpose of the 1st part of your message. London doesn't do it through the draft. They make trades... sure they draft well.. but no better then the Generals. They just benefit from the fact guys committed to college uncommit to go to a place like London.

Guelph yes they built through the draft..but have just 2 more players drafted by them on there roster then the Generals do. They simply just drafted better.

Oh.. and John Tavares played 4 years in the OHL...05-06, 06-07,07-08, 08-09 with London and Oshawa

Macker, alts has been in the 0hl for 3 years. But i agree, alts had to play, I thought he played great in game 1, I personally think its the best game I've seen him play and in game 2 he was faced with numerous breakaways and clear cut 2 on 1s.

And to whoever said to tank, come on I never want too see that, oshawa should be good next year anyways. It's been a while since we had high picks???? Laughton and Jenner were top 5 picks no? Then Tavares and Del Zotto before them.

Oshawa after poor drafting imo for a while have done well recently.

Altshuller was injuryed in game 3 he tweeked something and couldn't play Appleby did a fine job in net and he wasn't the problem we lost in game 4 maybe our lack of powerplay goals which we were great in the prior 2 playoff series, we just lost to a better over all team and there is no shame in that  
Thanks for making me proud to be a Gererals fan and to a great season also the Gens that are not returning remenber once a General always a General, and to the returning players lets do it again next season 

Also to the other poster's we had some great disscussions and disagrements   have yourself a great summer.
best fan's in the OHL 

Anyone who says to tank before the season even starts does not have a clue about Junior Hockey. It is very hard to predict. Case in point this season. I never thought they would finish first and go 3 rounds. They got outplayed and out coached in round 3 it happens. If they are in last place by trade deadline then sure trade some last year vets. I think this team gets Dal Colle, Cassells Brown OA, Sterk,Latour,Smith back for sure. They should all be better. I would guess they are a 3 4 seed in the east but again you never know. DJ has proved he can produce in the regular season but not in the playoffs as a head coach. He should be better too. Good season was lots of fun, too bad they went out the way they did but all in all a step forward.

Well, this is turning into line up changes for next year thread.

I really liked the improvement from the beginning of the season in Harding, Smith, Desrocher and Vande Sompel. I have to admit I was one of Smith's harshest critics regarding his skating but he really improved over the year.

Who needs to step up? To me Cole Cassels needs to take his game to the next level. He had some flashes in the playoffs but I would rate his season as not holding up to expectations.

Jacob Busch? He looks like he can be a goal scorer and all around player.

Biggest surprise and best trade? Josh Sterk.

I'd agree with Cassels, to me despite his 70+ points he looks lackadaisical at times. He needs to elevate his game next season, and I think he can. I think if he plays with Dal Colle and Smith a 90+ season is not out of the question.

The improvement of Harding, Smith, Desrocher and Vande Sompel was impressive to watch. I really think Harding can be a great player in the future. He's a hard worker, very smart player, good offensive skill & always buzzing around the net. With more Offensive opportunity he'll surely see his production increase. Smith, I too was a harsh critic of his skating and play overall. But to his credit he filled out a bit more, his hands improved as well as his skating. He just looks like a better all around player who is learning to use his size & strength to his advantage. Descrocher, his improvement was definitely noticeable. But to me he was exposed in the Conference Final. The kids young and I wont knock him, but his foot speed needs to improve as does his decision making. He looks scared/nervous to take hits and it effects his judgement with the puck, however he is young an I expect that to improve. Vande Sompel I was really impressed with as the season grew. His versatility served him well, but to me he needs to be a defenseman with the Generals. While effective as a forward, he's more effective as a D-Man, and losing Suellentrop and Lepkowski along with the possibility of losing Carlisle & Brown (all though they're likely back) the Generals will need him back there.

To me Aidan Wallace is a player that doesn't show up on the score sheet a lot, and likely probably won't throughout his OHL career. Sure he'll see increases in points as his ice time grows, but no mind blowing numbers. With that being said Wallace will be a very important part of this team going forward. I love this kids game, very hard worker, good penalty killer, good puck skills, high hockey IQ. He's a player. Sort of reminds me of Andy Andreoff in his 1st couple years with the Generals. Lets hope he has Andy's offensive numbers later in his OHL career.
Busch, even if he doesn't become that top 6 point producer I think he can, he'll be effective as well as a checker, that's willing to drop the mitts, play the PK, and add the odd goal.
Joe Manchurek, to me his skating improved as did his speed, but he didn't make the type of improvement I was expecting to see this year.

I don't see Wallace having Andy Andreoffs improvement but i see it in Harding. I think it will take hardings 3rd or even 4th year before we see 70+ pts. Everything else in his game keeps him on the 3rd line and top shutdown guy until then.

I like Wallace, I see him as exactly like urbanic which he replaced (in # too). He needs to add muscle obviously.

Core33, your correct he likely won't have Andreoff's improvement. But that's mainly because he won't have the offensive success. If you look solely at Andreoff's defensive game I believe as he progresses he can become similar. Andreoff became a top line forward so I suppose comparing the two wasn't exactly the best comparison. I meant the comparison to be more directed at the defensive side of Wallace's game. To me Wallace becomes part of an effective shut down line, who's able
To produce between 10-17 goals and 30-35 points, while being a major contributor on the penalty kill.

Harding will need to be placed in offensive situations for him to succeed, so I agree with the fact it will likely take until his 3rd or 4th to see an offensive outbreak. But worst case scenario he join Wallace on a good young checking line.

Thanks to all posters - TANKING is not and should not be in the Generals
thinking ever - not sure the last time the Hunters said let's tank

Great scouting and coaching is what matters - a patient G M not to sell the farm (Brad where am I now Sellwood) - couldn't coach - terrible G M

We will be just fine next yr - thankfully we didn't trade Vande Somple at the deadline for a BIG run like some had wanted

If we stay with the same lineup next year , short of Laughton , Sullentrop , we will be lucky to have the year this year let alone improve on it

We would be competitive throughout the year , but wouldn't have the horses to reach any further in the playoffs , as they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result

I personally would like to see us trade the players mentioned earlier build a solid collection of. Second round picks to go along with top first round picks and Really develop a wining team through the draft

This is an approach that hasn't been tried , we haven't been to the Ontario finals let alone the memorial cup in 17 years

Time to try something else , this just isn't working !!!!!

I know I'm dreaming because this owner would never go for it ( money )

Interesting , Kitchener is going to have the number 2 overall pick this summer , hmmm

I'd be happier purchasing my season tickets knowing we were on a different path other than continued mediocrity , kind of seems like we have been following MLSE approach , play well enough to make a round or two of the playoffs , don't Ever want to miss that playoff money

mygens wrote:I'd be happier purchasing my season tickets knowing we were on a different path other than continued mediocrity , kind of seems like we have been following MLSE approach , play well enough to make a round or two of the playoffs , don't Ever want to miss that playoff money

"Continued mediocrity" ? The Generals win the Eastern Conference and win two playoff rounds without a loss. Their coach is named coach of the year. Yes they lose the third round in 4 straight but they lose to a well-coached and disciplined team that frustrated everything they tried. A bitter ending but I don't think it can be called mediocrity.

Just when did the Leafs win a round or two in the playoffs.

I think it is junior hockey and the results are often unpredictable. A different opponent in the last round might well have had a different result.

I thought Twohey did a great job of adding pieces this year without subtracting from next year significantly. I am quite optimistic about next year.

Tanking to get a high draft choice may not help as you may not have that high draft choice around if he becomes a very high NHL draft choice. The John Tavares and Connor McDavids are rare indeed. A far better strategy is maximizing what you have and doing what you can to find projects (Hunter Smith) or hidden gems in the draft. Del Colle has exceeded his initial expectations.

A lot of folks on the board were clambering to trade Vande Sompel at the deadline. I am glad he was not traded. He has really stepped up and will be a valuable player for next year.

While it is easy to be frustrated long time fans must look to next year. The road ends suddenly and sometimes goes further than you think. I remember the Gens being up 3-0 in a series to Ottawa and losing. A far better memory is 1997 when the Gens beat a favoured Ottawa team in 6 games (with Marc Savard's scoring in overtime in the final game) to go to the Memorial Cup. This Gens fans is in it for the long term. I am happy for the year they had which was beyond expectations. I am disappointed by how it ended.

Look at north bay and guelph, you don't need superstars to get to the finals. This owner mentioned a couple of years ago that he wants oshawa to be decent and contend every year and I agree with that.

I'd rather contend every year then be bottom feeders for 2-3 years draft super stars, have them for 2 seasons, have good runs then go back to being brutal for years. It's a brutal cycle. It makes much more sense to contend each season, from every perspective. Fans see a contender, owners get playoff gate $ & players improve.

Again... Where are you coming from with the Gens are
Going to be worse next year... Every team in the East Minus maybe the bottom feeders and Kingston only get worse. Barrie will lose Ekblad, Theorett, Blandisi, Athanasiou, Hall, possibly Hooey. North Bay loses Goodrow, Thomson, McIvor, Blujus, McLeod. Kingston actually could lose quite a bit to depending on the draft an OA situations. We lose Laughton & Suellentrop basically..
Lepkowski & Smoskowitz where picked up at the deadline an we had been in first all season without them. If we lose Carlisle or Dundas that's by choice. We lose Laughton but add Pu, Cassels moves up to #1. The Cycle we have going is amazing. Jenner replaced Tavares, Laughton replaced Jenner, Cassels will replace Laughton, Harding will replace Cassels & Pu will replace Harding. That Cycle is how you build Winners.

I'd also like to ask how you suggest we'd be competitive all year an then fall of in the playoffs.. Will have a veteran team. If anything will pick up a piece or two at the deadline an get better.

To say continued mediocrcy is ludicrous. Mediocrcy would be continued 7-8th place finishes, 1st round exits. We went to the conference finals, we lost, it's disappointing but that's not mediocrcy ! Just because we haven't been to a memorial cup since 96 you can't blame the current system for that. Not to mention it only takes one team to be better then you to get to the Mem Cup. Championships are hard to win...


Mygens... yes Kitchener has the #2 pick in the draft..... And they took Adam Macherin.. Almost a month ago. So I'm guessing your pretty out of touch with the OHL.

Correct you don't need superstars but you need a team of top 2nd round and first round picks to mature together and be ready to take it all , with a team of mostly 19 year olds , like Guelph has done .

And if gens owner actually said he wanted a "decent " team every year to make a round or two of the playoffs , then I dint hold much hope for our future , because that means he will continue with what this team has been doing , being middle of the road year in and year out , winning nothing .

1997 we didn't win it all but we were there at the mem cup , and if we hadn't been crippled by injuries we might have won it , we haven't had a no quit leader like Savard since

Winning the memorial cup is a crap shoot , anything can happen , getting there is not , it takes great scouting , planning and very hard work on the ice game in and game out , we haven't had that since 1997 ,


That's a long bloody time ago now

I feel this owner cares about 1 thing , filling the rink and selling beer and hotdogs , money ! We need someone here who really wants to win and restore GEns pride , every time I here the Pa announcer doing what he is told by saying , " here are your generals 4 time memorial cup winners !!!! , i 3 of those cups were in the 40's during I the war years , seriously ???

If I Had the millions I would buy out this owner and ship him packing back to Windsor , i know with the right local ownership we could turn this ship around and build a real winner in 5 years ,

For any of you who are interested , take a look at the record of the Kelowna rockets the last 14 years , solid local ownership , and steady committed management , now that's a junior franchise you would love to be part of . , Portland winter hawks on their own role lately , all built through the draft

Macker88 , , Tavares , Jenner , Laughton , Cassels ? Where was the success ? Only Tavares was a top pick , and Jenner was better than Laughton who was better than Cassels , who will not lead this team to anything because he is fking lazy and you know it , and what else did we draft ? We hardly had any second round picks since Tavares , we've been trying to compete with 3rd and 4th round guys , against teams with more 2nd round picks , you know as well as I do 2nd round selections with good drafting almost always brings better quality players

We don't compete with the best teams , if we had played , any of London , the sault , Erie , Guelph or north bay , in the first round we would have lost , plain and simple , you seem to know hockey from what I can tell , you must know this

Yes we have had a few players who have surprised us from lower rounds , but you just don't win championships with a team of 3rd or 4th round picks , the gens like the leafs do a great jog of promoting their team and over valueing it , this year was no different

We did not play well this playoff season , in fact Altshuller was the biggest reason we went as far as we did ,

I hope you're right about next year , but I have zero faith that this cast without Laughton and sullentrop will have any more success , in fact I suspect we won't .

This would be a great opportunity to trade some of theses guys away , drop down , really build through the draft with first and sound round picks over a two of 3 years , by then Van de somple should be a hell of a player btw Harding is way over rated )

But with this owner you have no fear this team will continue to tweek and try for a deep run in the playoffs with a lot of luck . ...but mark my words they will win nothing again ,

I've been a season ticket holder for over 30 years , 33 actually , I've seen some great teams in that time , but it's been wayyyy too long for me now , I'm going year to year at this point , getting very weary of the organizations passion for mediocrity

Come on, really man. I get that the owner is more concerned about money then he is about a successful product on the ice. But Jeff Thowhey and DJ Smith make the personnel moves. This season Thowhey acquired Smoskowitz & Lepkowski for a single 2015 2nd Round Pick. Why this is important.. Sudbury spent 4 picks and young players to acquire Carrick & Faksa they lost in round 1. Sure Thowhey didn't make the massive move some wanted an sure he didn't sell off assets. But in my
Opinion he did exactly what he should of. He upgraded the team, added some veterans and didn't lose the future. He knew competing in an OHL final against Erie or Guelph would likely be a losing battle. But had they faced off against London, they would of been in the Memorial Cup and anything could have happend. As far as 2014 is concerned there should be zero complaints.

As far as going forward, blowing up the roster for assets doesn't help the team. Draft picks are never sure things, proven talent is. Who's to say we trade Dal Colle & Cassels for 2nd round picks and the Guys we select are
Complete busts. Next season we have the opportunity to be just as good if not better. Remember the teams that were good this year, most lose basically their whole core,
We lose 3 guys who where here all season 5 including out deadline picks.

I do know hockey, Junior & Minor Midget Hockey to be accurate. You do win with 3rd an 4th round picks. Keep in mind a kid selected in the 3rd round is anywhere from the 41st-60th best player in his age group in all of Ontario and parts of the USA. The first 5 rounds are top 100 prospects an all of those kids are impactful. Teams that have the most success are teams that hit on kids they select outside of the top 40. Coupled of course with how they use their OA slots & Import slots. You mention Guelph as a comparison we should use.. Guelph has only had one 1st, 2nd or 3rd overall pick in their history as the Guelph Storm (1991) and that was Jeff O'Neil in 93. Since 2009 which is the draft current OA's would have been selected in, the only Guelph pick in the top 10 was 6th overall Robbi Fabbri in 2012. Adam Craievich 3rd round pick 2013. Kyle Locke 2nd Round Pick, Matt Mancina 3rd Round Pick, both in 2012. Dickinson 2nd round pick, Harpur 3rd round pick, Bauman, Bertuzzi 4th round picks in 2011. Kosmachuk 2nd, McGinn 3rd, Leslie 4th, Auger 6th in 2010. Zack Mitchell 4th, Ryan Horvat 6th in 2009. My point again top 100 picks are where you build your team. As for the Generals Manchurek was a 4th, Busch a 6th, Templeton a 6th, Desrocher a 6th, Petschenig a 3rd, Latour a 4th, Brown a 3rd, Carlisle a 15th. We have had just as many picks as the Storm in pervious drafts, it's just who we selected. They simply drafted better. This has nothing to do with tanking or the ownership, or even the number of 2nd round picks. I mean where we took 3 players in the 2010 3rd round, Josh Brown, Mitch Eden & Cody Payne. Two Quality OHL players, but, we could've ha Brock McGinn. That's just an example.

As for saying if we played London, Guelph, Erie or North Bay in the first round, yeah we would of lost... But we would have been a 6,7,8 place team an would be the underdog an should lose. We play a season to have favourable first round matchups. You can't make deals because on paper you may be weaker, you have to play the games. Sure teams like Mississauga, Ottawa, Belleville, Kitchener, Sarnia & Plymouth could sell off, they new the chances they where gonna win even a round or get into the playoffs where slim to none. But a top team needs to proceed as a top team and add not subtract.

As where the success was with Tavares, Jenner, Laughton, Cassels.. Tavares took us to a conference final. We built through the draft then. 2005 we took Tavares 1st, 2006 Del Zotto 2nd. You can't get much worse then that.. An yet no championship. 2007, Shugg & Corrent where our 1st & 2nd picks. Yet de Haan in the 3rd & Andreoff in the 5th where the best picks. Jenner never got us any where, but hey Stamkos never took Sarnia any where. If you base success on OHL championships only Windsor and London are to be considered success in your eyes. I would consider Barrie, North Bay, Belleville & Oshawa as the Most consistently successful Eastern Conference teams in the last 10 years. Windsor, London, Plymouth, Kitchener & Guelph in the west. These teams are all consistent contenders minus maybe a year here an there. In the OHL with consistent roster turnover on a yearly bases being a contender year in an year out is how you judge success. Teams like Kelowna, Portland, London, Quebec, Gatineau. Those teams are special. They have almost unfair advantages in how their able to recruit players. Look at powerhouses from just a few years ago Saint Johns 3 straight Mem Cup appearances.. A bottom feeder since.

Harding, saying he's overrated is a bit much. He's 16 & played 4th line minutes. When given opportunity to play offensive roles he produced and given time on the PK he play with tenacity and aggression and was successful. He'll be an NHL draft pick next season.

Cassels, he may not be captain material but he's a 70+ point player as a 3rd year guy. He's likely gonna crack 80-85 next year. He's a relatively high NHL pick. I tend to side with NHL scouts over disgruntled Oshawa generals fans as far as what I believe Cassels can be moving forward.

Just a little side note about Portland, their coach was suspended for a year, the organization was fined and lost draft picks due to their recruitment with players. Same thing Windsor did, same thing London does.. I wouldn't say we should be like them. These teams have advantages the Generals just don't have to offer.

I can agree we played brutal in the playoffs, but the Generals played to the level of their opponents all year this season. They'd beat crap teams by 1 or 2, an lose to good teams by 1 or 2. Squeak out victories over top teams and blow out crap teams occasionally. They rarely played to their ability, they consistently played to their opponents ability.

Bottom line these are your suggestions, I believe it's the wrong way to go about things. Junior hockey has to many moving parts to do a NHL like rebuild. Guys leave early, draft picks choose the NCAA over OHL, imports show up, imports don't come, NHL teams keep guys you expect back, they send back guys you expect to be gone (Laughton), an the world juniors has top Guys miss regular season games year in an out, as does the under 17s.
My thoughts are you adjust on the go, if Dal Colle sticks in the NHL an we struggle then yea you consider moving guys like Cassels, & Brown. Guys you know won't be returning. But to do it prior to game 1 it makes no sense. As a Jr hockey GM you project your roster going forward and the Generals project roster going into 14-15 should be a top one in the OHL.

I'd make use of our import spots next year to strengthen the depth of the roster. I'd then acquire an OA from a team who's overloaded with OA's. knowing they can only carry 3 means a cheap price tag as far as acquiring an OA. I'd try an upgrade on Carlisle, or release him to open another OA spot. An go from there. The lineup projects to be pretty solid. I definitely think we need to use two OA spots on are back end and our import picks up front.