Coaching - hate to bring it up

Well you are obviously a close friend/associate with a very biased uncritical view and vested interest. I doubt anyone else thinks he has done a good job since he has arrived but I could be wrong. I am not sure how you think that any Jr. B success transfers itself to the Major Jr level anymore than Major Jr. transfers to the NHL. Many GREAT Major junior coaches were complete duds in the NHL and did not last very long. I did NOT say he was a poor coach because veterans have bailed - if they have at all. If they DID indeed bail that speaks volumes to me! What I do see is very little individual progress/development and almost no overall team cohesion or effective stategic play. He has developed players with mind numbing negative +/- stats. He has a penchant for orchastrating long losing streaks and lop sided blow outs. I don't think the Gens have the luxury of waiting to see if HE 'eventually' develops or not. I do know that the fans have waited more than long enough with incredible patience. Key draft picks not showing are more than a major significant concern. There are tons of question marks to say the least IMO. Should he be sent packing do not think he will land as a coach /gm in this loop.

My concern is that the players are not prepared to play on game day - I don't always care if we lose but this year it's how we lost - lack of heart-passion and emotion,except for a couple of winning streaks.

My only point is that IF there is a more qualified person out there to run this team next year a change MUST be made . This is not an attack at the current staff and I realize that we only have 2 top 6 forwards and 9 - 4th liners - 3 rookies on Defense and sub par goaltending at times.

On a hockey team - we all agree that if our G M can bring in Ryan Ellis next year for very little we would say go for it , yes you would upgrade the team.This is no different everyone who is employed in a business can be replaced by some one more qualified

My bet is if season ticket sales drop BIG time - someone must pay and someone else would have to br hired and have a plan to move ahead as I'm sure Adam Graves didn't come here to lose $$$$$$

On the item of DIPS sucess at Tier 2 - this does not apply to the next level as many good or great OHL coaches could not move up to the NHL level

Players will simply give up as our team has by the way they are treated. Obviously they have lost respect for Dips and are showing it.

This Tier II/OHL debate as it relates to the Coach/GM:

For the GM role -The recruitment process is significantly different from Tier II to OHL. Because there is no draft process or territorial protection process in Tier II, players are free to go to a team of their chosing before signing a card. OHL teams obviously have a draft process. Obviously in both you want to recruit the best players you can, but the processes are entirely different.

Good coaching characteristics I would think would be similar for both leagues.

When contemplating to keep a coach or a GM, you can't say well he was sucessful in Tier II so give him 4 years to mold an OHL team. I agree in patience, but I do not agree the turn around process for re-builds in the OHL is 4 years as I saw suggested.

Our coach had almost 2 years at the helm to develop players (3 if you count his 2/3 season as associate coach and 1/3 season as head coach - not one season as I read earlier in this thread). So fans are expressing their opinion if they think they like or don't like what they see in individual player/team development over that time period, but keep in mind, ownership makes the final decision.

I agree as GM he has had one draft year which he is responsible for (which judgement is still out by me - I like Jenner,don't know if Biggs will report, not sold so far on any of the three 16 year old Dmen we got so far, might improve with age but I am concerned with the amount of improvement I see in their play from the start of the year to now). He has had two years in making trades, had to make the Tavares/MDL deal, got good players, hoping the draft picks pan out but of course we don't know that yet. Trades made this season, insignificant IMO.

Seventhman wrote:This Tier II/OHL debate as it relates to the Coach/GM:

For the GM role -The recruitment process is significantly different from Tier II to OHL. Because there is no draft process or territorial protection process in Tier II, players are free to go to a team of their chosing before signing a card. OHL teams obviously have a draft process. Obviously in both you want to recruit the best players you can, but the processes are entirely different.

Good coaching characteristics I would think would be similar for both leagues.

When contemplating to keep a coach or a GM, you can't say well he was sucessful in Tier II so give him 4 years to mold an OHL team. I agree in patience, but I do not agree the turn around process for re-builds in the OHL is 4 years as I saw suggested.

Our coach had almost 2 years at the helm to develop players (3 if you count his 2/3 season as associate coach and 1/3 season as head coach - not one season as I read earlier in this thread). So fans are expressing their opinion if they think they like or don't like what they see in individual player/team development over that time period, but keep in mind, ownership makes the final decision.

I agree as GM he has had one draft year which he is responsible for (which judgement is still out by me - I like Jenner,don't know if Biggs will report, not sold so far on any of the three 16 year old Dmen we got so far, might improve with age but I am concerned with the amount of improvement I see in their play from the start of the year to now). He has had two years in making trades, had to make the Tavares/MDL deal, got good players, hoping the draft picks pan out but of course we don't know that yet. Trades made this season, insignificant IMO.

And that's a fair assessment. While I am inclined to think more time is needed than 1-2 years, everything you said is fair and a much better read then some of the other stuff posted here which (not from everybody but) largely consists of "Fire the coach! He sucks!" while providing no support other than the record and not factoring in at all what Gens Camper said about the quantity of first-line players that are on this team.

As for the season ticket base, my thinking is that if there was to be a drop, it would have happened before this season with the loss of JT and the tanking economy. Of course, everyone is free to spend their dollar as they wish but my instinct is that while they haven't earned any extra season ticket holders through their impressive play, any decrease should be negligible. The product being paid for is the entertainment value of the OHL and not necessarily a winning team. I know I'll renew my Toronto FC tickets (partial season tickets, 12 games) even if they miss the playoffs and hopefully upgrade to full season tickets if cheaper ones become available (only the prime seats were available when my spot in the waiting list came up this year). Just my thoughts, I'm not a sports marketing major by any means though.

This debate is far from the simple theme of 'Fire the coach! He sucks!' ... just because the team has hit a soft spot. What it is ALL about is 'Trend and Pattern.' The longer term 'Trend' which the team appears to be taking/headed based on team play and the overall 'Trend' improvement of indiviual players and their skill levels on a month to month basis. Any good coach improves ALL players - especially at this age! The 'Pattern' is winning vs losing streaks and associated +ve vs -ve lopsided wins/losses. Also included in 'Pattern' is the game situation 'value added' which a head coach contributes to win close games via specific strategy which he impliments to positively influence the outcome of a game. It is a very significant intangible which enhances the confidence of the players and ends dangerous losing skids. If these is both a positive 'Trend AND Pattern' for a team the majority of fans and supporters are more than happy to let it continue. However, towards the end of a season the 'I don't/didn't have enough quality players' is a very negative, empty, and telling sign. Gone is the residual trade value of most players and the overall confidence which they possess. Just as it 'may' be fair to criticize so-called 'sub par - bad attitude' players - it is more than fair to criticize 'sub par - over rated' leadership and coaching and demand the necessary change(s)!

A lot of people have there opinion about Dips should be "Fire or should Dips keep only one of the positions "
What ever your stance on the coach/GM nothing is going to happen till the end of the season,when everything is going to be evaluated.So let the season play out and see what happens at the evaluation time.

I WILL BE SHOCKED IF DIPS ISNT FIRED AS SOON AS THE SEASON IS DONE .. they need to get a new "culture "in here before the draft for sure , this is a critical draft for the gens that will play a huge role in what direction this team takes in the next years to come .

Agreed 110%. I love your 'culture' development thought. Top end franchises (London/Kitch/Ott/Pet) which consistantly compete and/or win demand excellence or change their 'cultures' without even a thought! Little or no time is taken in the process! It should have been done here 2 years ago when push has came to shove!

The Ottawa 67s haven't won a playoff series since 2005. Peterborough hasn't won one since 2006. Neither of those teams has a winning culture in the "What have you done lately?" category other than making the playoffs this year which doesn't mean anything if they lose in the first round again which would be five consecutive years for Ottawa. I'm not suggesting anyone would tinker with the foolish idea of firing Kilrea who is a proven winner after a couple of subpar seasons, I'm just saying that a couple of subpar seasons is perfectly normal.

Playoffs are the playoffs - anything can happen and usually does! Earning a spot is a very minimum goal for the top clubs. The point was that top franchises ensure positive 'culture' conditions or make the necessary changes until it is in place! All those coaches (Hunter excluded) are very aware of expectations and job security! The strength of everyone of those franchises is coaching and scouting. The 'Shwa should be one of them - as they once were!

hockeybeats , we are not talking about kilrea , kilrea is and has been a proven winner , i would never consider dumping him after a couple of "subpar seasons " , having said that comparing ottawa and oshawa in this regard is like apples and oranges , the gens havent won anything or been near the top for 13 years now and counting , and dipiero is not a proven winner , he's had a few years to make his mark first as an assistant ( defensive coach , miserable failure ) and now head coach , again complete failure .........dipiero needs to take a few steps back in league levels , learn to coach , learn to motivate , then perhaps get another shot at major junior ....he's not up to the task at this level , at this time , HE HAS TO GO , I DONT WANT HIM AROUND AT OUR EXPENSE , I PAID 2000 FOR SEASON TICKETS THIS YEAR , AND THE VALUE HAS NOT BEEN THERE AND WE ARE NOT MOVING FORWARD WITH DIPS .

What's funny that you'll more than likely still pay another $2000 next season and Dips will still be Coach & GM. At least we will hear your rants for another season

Then I guess we will be looking at '14 years and counting' .....

Fire the Coach!!!!!!!!!!!
It's time as our season is over.

Our season was over in feb after going 1-11 in that month

Since the bashing will continue for dipps, for those of you that have so much time on your hands, and have nothing else to do, if dipps is back as either gm, coach or both, i guess all you people will not be buying season tickets or be at any gens home games next year,but if i was a betting man, all you bashers will be back at the game and on this site bashing whoever the coach is, just trying to make yourselves feel good about yourselves.There are so many of you, please buy this hockey club, hire a new gm and coach, and show us how to build a championship team.

Its' way too early to have mailed it in again! Plus missing the 'post season festivities' is a very expensive proposition in more than one way. One way or another this deal needs to be straightened out!

keep the coach!!keep the coach!!keep the coach!!keep the coach!!
keep the coach!!keep the coach!!keep the coach!!keep the coach!!
keep the coach!!keep the coach!!keep the coach!!keep the coach!!
keep the coach!!keep the coach!!keep the coach!!keep the coach!!
keep the coach!!

come everyone!who"s with me?
lol

gmc 118 wrote:Since the bashing will continue for dipps, for those of you that have so much time on your hands, and have nothing else to do, if dipps is back as either gm, coach or both, i guess all you people will not be buying season tickets or be at any gens home games next year,but if i was a betting man, all you bashers will be back at the game and on this site bashing whoever the coach is, just trying to make yourselves feel good about yourselves.There are so many of you, please buy this hockey club, hire a new gm and coach, and show us how to build a championship team.

I agree completely. I'll bet if the Gens are 0-1, 4-1 or 8-1, the ranting and roaring will return after the first loss regardless of who's coaching.

hockeybeats wrote:

gmc 118 wrote:Since the bashing will continue for dipps, for those of you that have so much time on your hands, and have nothing else to do, if dipps is back as either gm, coach or both, i guess all you people will not be buying season tickets or be at any gens home games next year,but if i was a betting man, all you bashers will be back at the game and on this site bashing whoever the coach is, just trying to make yourselves feel good about yourselves.There are so many of you, please buy this hockey club, hire a new gm and coach, and show us how to build a championship team.

I agree completely. I'll bet if the Gens are 0-1, 4-1 or 8-1, the ranting and roaring will return after the first loss regardless of who's coaching.

I'll make one bet. If the Gens are 0-68 next year, you will say nothing is wrong with the Coaching and it is just the normal cycle of Junior hockey, and that all the ills of the team are completely related to Sellwood's era, except of course, for the decision made by Sellwood to bring Dips in.

It's not the time for bashing. It's the time for the tough decisions. Missing the post season for 2 consecutive seasons is simply the writing on the wall. The interests of the club must always be put first. Any coach worth their salt knows the drill. Change and moving in a different direction is simply part of the game. Job security ain't a given!

I will not be a season ticket holder unless changes are made . I am buying a product and the this years product sucked starting with the owner situation , to the inexperienced coaching/gm , to a Jr A club filled with undertalented 4th liners with the exception of a few .
So if this Business decide that it is "business as usual" at the start of 2010/2011 season I will kiss my deposit goodbye , and frequent this blog , which will solidify my decison .
I truly wish this club was in the hands of local owners , some have inquired , just did not work out

gogensgo wrote:

hockeybeats wrote:

gmc 118 wrote:Since the bashing will continue for dipps, for those of you that have so much time on your hands, and have nothing else to do, if dipps is back as either gm, coach or both, i guess all you people will not be buying season tickets or be at any gens home games next year,but if i was a betting man, all you bashers will be back at the game and on this site bashing whoever the coach is, just trying to make yourselves feel good about yourselves.There are so many of you, please buy this hockey club, hire a new gm and coach, and show us how to build a championship team.

I agree completely. I'll bet if the Gens are 0-1, 4-1 or 8-1, the ranting and roaring will return after the first loss regardless of who's coaching.

I'll make one bet. If the Gens are 0-68 next year, you will say nothing is wrong with the Coaching and it is just the normal cycle of Junior hockey, and that all the ills of the team are completely related to Sellwood's era, except of course, for the decision made by Sellwood to bring Dips in.

Haha ... at the very least, I will give you credit for a good comeback.

These franchises are a very expensive proposition for everyone involved. Allowing this debacle to continue to fester could prove fatal. My feeling is that ownership is all over it and are determined to get the right formula and winning combination. A significant investment will be needed. This is certainly a 'change or be changed' situation IMO!