Coaching - hate to bring it up

gensman wrote:These franchises are a very expensive proposition for everyone involved. Allowing this debacle to continue to fester could prove fatal. My feeling is that ownership is all over it and are determined to get the right formula and winning combination. A significant investment will be needed. This is certainly a 'change or be changed' situation IMO!

I have to agree after spending that night meeting with Graves and Tullio . As I watched the last 2 min of tonights game , The expressions on the face of Dips was that of " its finally over and has accepted his fate " a look of relief in a starnge way, I am sure he is not oblivious to all the chatter on the blogs and around the league in regards to his imminent departure.

Just out of curiosity, can you send a link to any actual credible blog that shares your opinion other than the same usual suspects from here posting on the NOOF? I am actually curious if such chatter does exist outside of four or five people here.

I do read loosepucks.com and a couple of others and haven't seen nothing of the sort.

Expect big change by month end. Failure to do so puts the entire franchise's credibility into question. Patience is not a luxury which they have!

hockeybeats wrote:Just out of curiosity, can you send a link to any actual credible blog that shares your opinion other than the same usual suspects from here posting on the NOOF? I am actually curious if such chatter does exist outside of four or five people here.

I do read loosepucks.com and a couple of others and haven't seen nothing of the sort.

I would agree with your general premise although look at it with a different spin and that has been a concern of mine especially over the last few years. I've been around for awhile and this franchise always used to be talked about and was a buzz in the league, good or bad. Over the years, we have fallen off the map and people just don't have the passion to talk about us. The best we could do ine past decade is get people commenting on JT as an individual. When people become indifferent to your organizaton, that has an eery trend if you are an owner. Even this forum doesn't have many posters as you indicated.

As a previous season ticket holder in Kelowna Vancouver and for 17 years in Kitchener my wife and I looked long and hard as to which GTA area team to support as we live in Toronto we looked at St Mikes, Brampton, and Oshawa we also considered the Marlies but I might have been drinking that night. We went to games in each arena during our first season back in Toronto (2008) We saw about 20 games in Brampton, 25 in Mississauga and about 15 in Oshawa. When it was all said and done we loved the arena in Oshawa, the fans, the tradition (similar to Kitchener) and the fact that the team looked the most promising we were very used to winning in those other markets. We bought our season tickets and join the likes of all of you in supporting the gens. Although we have only been here two years we love the people around us but we can't stand the product on the ice. Individually we have player we love and hate but what we really can't stand is watching a inept coaching staff with no game plan with no control over his players making bantam coaching decisions. He has struggled all season long and will continue to struggle. Although hiring a new coach is not the immediate answer, I am sure a better coach would have gotten more out of the talent we have. We are going to hold out for our season tickets, i am sure if we wait until September our seats will still be available. If a change is made we'll be back if no change is made we'll be in Toronto.

hockeybeats wrote:Just out of curiosity, can you send a link to any actual credible blog that shares your opinion other than the same usual suspects from here posting on the NOOF? I am actually curious if such chatter does exist outside of four or five people here.

I do read loosepucks.com and a couple of others and haven't seen nothing of the sort.

Your exhausting, your right why would anyone chatter about Oshawa , we are right were they want us to be! Tha laughing stock of the league . Teams are praying we ice the same crap next year, we iced this year , it will be 3 in a row . Next will be the owners cannot make any money in Oshawa , nor break even hence the team will be up forsale again , One thing I know about hockey players with deep pockets , They are extrmely tight and very impatient when their own dough is involved . I have trouble collecting a nassua bet after a round of golf .

As far as noof , they had a thread dedicated to " who will get fired first " trust me DIPS and the crew were banterred about

At the season ticket holder meeting I was talking to Rocco Tulio.
His exact words to me was that the Gens better make the playoffs.
Well since we didn't, I definitely see some chages happening with the coaching staff.

My question for the people who support this coaching staff is: what exactly do they do that makes you think that they should get another year?
Their defensive system is non-existant (have you ever taken a break from watching the play when the opposition has the puck in our end to count the number of open players?). They sustain no offensive pressure, have very poor special teams, and very rarely play a full 60 minute game.
I can't really say that I see many players who even improved significantly over the course of the season.
Also, to say that their roster does not have the talent, do you think Peterborough or Brampton has much more?

very well put another118 ...........i agree 100 %

hey bobbyorrnumber4 .........your certainly right about pro hockey players not wanting to dig into their own pockets to pay for anything , that has been my experience as well , and i've had a few . i think this applies to all pro athletes , they are so spoiled by their clubs , didnt used to be that way 40 yrs ago , but it sure is today .........

No one should have to 'dig into their pockets' in order to cover for inadequacies or disfunctions of a franchise. Who would want to? Before long subscribers and advertisers will question their support also. Jr hockey franchises are now very expensive and should be operated as a business first and foremost. And in order for a business to operate profitably it must provide a good service or product for which people are willing to pay for. A winning franchise is a profitable franchise. Bring in professional coaching and management and turn this good ship Gennie around as legitimate Mem Cup contenders then absolutely no one will have to be 'digging into their own pockets' to finance it! The only pockets that will be picked would be for final Mem Cup tickets featuring the Gens @ the GM Center!

gogensgo wrote:

hockeybeats wrote:Just out of curiosity, can you send a link to any actual credible blog that shares your opinion other than the same usual suspects from here posting on the NOOF? I am actually curious if such chatter does exist outside of four or five people here.

I do read loosepucks.com and a couple of others and haven't seen nothing of the sort.

I would agree with your general premise although look at it with a different spin and that has been a concern of mine especially over the last few years. I've been around for awhile and this franchise always used to be talked about and was a buzz in the league, good or bad. Over the years, we have fallen off the map and people just don't have the passion to talk about us. The best we could do ine past decade is get people commenting on JT as an individual. When people become indifferent to your organizaton, that has an eery trend if you are an owner. Even this forum doesn't have many posters as you indicated.

So in other words, the answer is no. The rumours of imminent change is something that was completely fabricated here by a few individuals and has no credible source but believed because it has been said here ad nauseum by a few people. Exactly as I thought.

As far as noof , they had a thread dedicated to " who will get fired first " trust me DIPS and the crew were banterred about

I said aside from the usual suspects on the NOOF. That isn't a credible blog, it's the same people from here.

In a 52-reply thread, total number of people suggesting De Piero should be fired: a whopping TWO. Oh yeah, looks like a consensus I guess. There was also a post that said that De Piero has only been given one draft and it's only his second year coaching and he should be given more time. Had I posted there too, I guess that would make it 2-2. I don't think that's a strong case one way or the other. It's exactly what we have here - the opinion of a few fans. That's it.

I said show me a credible blog that says there are imminent changes in Oshawa, not another forum being frequented by the same usual suspects.

And if anyone is really considering switching season tickets to Mississauga or Brampton, that is your choice but my bet is that when the Gens are a middle of the pack team next year and contender the following year and you are sitting in an 80% empty arena with no atmosphere, you will be kicking yourself. It is your choice though.

Ultimately the question one must answer is,

'What would I do if I was the owner who is losing money with a team that missed the post season for the past few years?' 'A team with very little cohesion or chemistry or character.' 'A team that 'still' enjoys reasonable support but is quickly losing credibility.' 'A team with a work-in-progress coaching staff that has stubbed their toes on more than one occasion in a very competitive 'professional' league.' 'A team with young unproven management that has had top no-show draft picks and players leave before their most effective years.'

If after all that you still willing to write the cheque in the 'hope' that - time will heal all wounds - and simply waiting for 'your turn in the cycle' is the solution - then it hardly matters who you have coaching or managing your team.

I'd say it was the ultimate in 'Ostrich Optimism' and a tad naive in this very difficult league. And I'd also say you weren't a paying customer!

Having read all of these comments on this thread and others I don't know who should be blamed for the showing this year.
The goal tending has been spotty all year, could we have acquired another in a trade? But who would be willing to give up a better than average goal tender for our streaky ones. Maybe next year with this years experience they will improve.
In talking about our current goal tenders, I can't leave our certain defense and forward personnel who I don't believe perform well in our defensive zone.
In the defense category, while De Hart has had a banner year he certainly isn't the same player on defense as he seems to out of position quite a bit. When he was partnered with deHaan I believe deHaan covered a lot for Dehart in the defensive zone. I can't believe the lack of good defensive play by Valentine or Dzelski. Both again look like they are scrambling and are out of position frequently. The other defense players excepting Sullentrop would have benefited with more ice time though out the season to give them more experience for the coming year. While I didn't attend many of the latter games in the season, when I was, there I didn't see much chatter between the defense players and the defensive coach. From what I saw I think that coach was certainly not an asset towards developing the defense players.
As far as the forwards go, we had certain players that put up a lot of points, but there was a tremendous gap with the rest of the forwards. While I am impressed with Lambarto for his speed and desire I don't know if I can say the same thing about some of the others.
While I am disappointed ,I am not down on the team and am not sure the blame for the poor performance shouldn't be shared by Owners, Management and some of the players, who have potential but didn't play up their capabilities.
Finally we missed de Haan and Berger with their injuries which didn't help us at all.
Sorry for the long winded commentary, but I believe there may be many factors affecting this teams performance that may not rest entirely with Dips.
Sincerely

Anotherin118 wrote:My question for the people who support this coaching staff is: what exactly do they do that makes you think that they should get another year?
Their defensive system is non-existant (have you ever taken a break from watching the play when the opposition has the puck in our end to count the number of open players?). They sustain no offensive pressure, have very poor special teams, and very rarely play a full 60 minute game.
I can't really say that I see many players who even improved significantly over the course of the season.
Also, to say that their roster does not have the talent, do you think Peterborough or Brampton has much more?

This thread is never ending and certainly has supporters on both sides of the coaching coin. However, this post by Anotherin118 is bang on! Great analysis. It is time for a change.

A thorough analysis.
I ,for one, have a hard time blaming any players. They are all courted and invited to be a part of a 'team' concept. They all arrive with great enthusiasm to play well and compete hard. Strange and funny things happen along the way (to say the least) that are out of control of the players.

Ultimately (and sometimes unfairly) the coach receives or pays the final price. It is expected comes with the turf!

7 goals in the 2nd period.

Those of you that support "Dipps":

1. Don't tell me I won't renew my season tickets if he returns, because I will. I am a lifer.

2. Don't tell me I will bash a new coach at this first site of a losing streak because I won't!

Just can this guy already please. I will never give up my season tickets, but those of you that support this clown must be related to him because this clearly isn't working.

Sorry, just thinking about travelling with my buds a few years back or taking my wife and kids to playoff games and have an enormous sense of pride for this team, wearing my jersey into hostile territory, etc.

Not experiencing that right now and it is not the players fault!

Wow. 7 goals in the second period - 6 of which were even strength. I guess that's EVERYBODY'S fault this time ... except u know who!

Was that a moving van I just saw leaving the vicinity of Dips Office ., and look they brought in Sellwood to pack Dips boxes.

Didnt know sellwood had time to move the boxes, saw him the other night working the mcdonalds drive thru.

[quote="Lindy88"]7 goals in the 2nd period.


1. Don't tell me I won't renew my season tickets if he returns, because I will. I am a lifer.

2. Don't tell me I will bash a new coach at this first site of a losing streak because I won't!

/quote]


Hey Lindy88 I'm with you been a fan for more than 28 years and most of those years a season ticket holder,
I'm there when they win and when they lose because that's what a fan is do, I to don't like loseing no but ain't going to jump ship because of it,I guess people like to blame someone and that's someone is Dip's right now and I'm going to leave that dission to the owners which two of them has alot of knowledge about the game, and for those people that are not going to not renew there season's there not true fans and they shouldn't call them selves one.

2. Don't tell me I will bash a new coach at this first site of a losing streak because I won't! but gensman will

Oh yeah I'll be all over them Week 1 for sure ...

...or maybe game 1 ... or after the first period ... and waaaay 'BEFORE' top draft picks don't show ... key OA's are not traded for residual value ... major demoralizing losing skids ... embarrassing lop sided blowouts ... humiliating 7 goal extravaganzas at the hands of our arch rivals ...the 'Shwa is an easy club to consistently spank and drub on the way to the playoffs ... we are asked to PAY more each year for the experience ... and finally long before it is obvious to EVERYONE that bench leadership has no effective systems or standards or value added experience.

The only group who may/would beat me to the punch would be the top 4 clubs who wouldn't stand for a second sub standard leadership and mediocre performance at best. They have no sympathy for coaches who were allegedly handed a whole group of 4th liners and who want more time (going into their 5th year) just to figure it all out. Butts would be flying out the door faster than a 'Generals' 10 game losing slide! They prefer for good reason experience, knowledge, and skill to be garnered elsewhere before it is applied - and it consistently shows up in their performance!

The group I wouldn't be as patient as however, is our beloved lovable losers the 'Buds,' who have valiantly waited for the end of their 30 year losing cycle and are still trying to fight their way out of the basement after 7 STRAIGHT YEARS OF MISSING THE PLAYOFFS! Patience has 'finally' worn thin at the ACC 'cash box' and only NOW are drastic steps and measures being taken to raise the expectations and standards.

if dips was any kind or general manager he would fire himself after the results of the last 2 years .

mygens wrote:if dips was any kind or general manager he would fire himself after the results of the last 2 years .

Now your talking nonsense mygens , If you had a contract for 1,2 3 years and things weren't going right for you for what ever reson would you fire yourself I don't think so

First off, of course everyone is frustrated with not making the playoffs 4 of the last 6 years and only having one good run over the last 13 but what everyone is suggesting to happen can't happen for a few reasons.

Not to bash the Selwood era again but how many coaches were being paid their 3 year deals while the team remained stuck in neutral until Jt and MDZ arrived? ( Bob Mcgill fired and paid remaining 2 years of deal,Randy Ladouceur fired and paid remaining two years, Brad Selwood fired and paid remaining year on deal)

Selwood and old scouting group are directly responsible for the players on this team except for last years draft. The drafting of JT and MDZ were easy, the rest are what we have put up with for the last few years.

Last year with the influence of Peter Deboer at the draft table for the Generals and the new head scout that came from Kitchener we drafted and played Boone Jenner, Colin Sullentrop, Jimmy Mcdowell and Kyle Hope. These players played a lot of games and will be better for it in the coming years. Usually we don't play our 16 year olds and they look like rookies as 17 and 18 year olds. This was Dipps first draft on his own. He needs to have at least one more draft. The players we all like have come in the last two years and are solid building blocks for this team moving forward.

These players include: 16 year olds Jenner, Sullentrop,Hope, Mcdowell
Players acquired for JT and MDZ: Thomas,Valentine and Zador plus picks (Biggs and future seconds)
The other players we need to keep moving forward are Dehaan, Dehart,labardo and Berger

So there again is the magical number of 10 players who we keep that others have talked about. The rest of the players moving forward are not impact players. Selwood gets props for Dehaan.

The only way Dipps is not back is if Florida fires Deboer the Peter would come in as coach and GM.

We need a great draft this year again and our top pick must be a high end offensive player.
We need to get out and sway the minds of Lessio and Biggs to get them here.

As far as goalies go I say go with one of these guys and give them the confidence they need or trade them both and get an OA tender to tutor a young goalie from the draft.

Again I agree its frustrating as a fan and I have been a fan for over 30 years but I have to trust the team that is finally in place and that team has only really been in place one year. (Tullio with Deboer and Graves $ and hockey sense and head scout from Kitchener)

Oh and I sit in section 118 too. We love watching our Gens score in this end for two periods