Thoughts on fighting

Found this editorial. Was wondering the opinion of others on the subject.

Student hockey fans sent wrong message at Generals game

To the editor:

I had the opportunity to watch the Oshawa Generals on Tuesday, Nov. 2 and I have to say that I've never been so disappointed in a hockey team as I am with the Generals.

The first period of hockey was a good performance and saw the Gens up by a goal. In the second period, the wheels fell off and it turned into a continuous boxing match. There was one fight after the other and it really took away from the enjoyment of hockey.

There were several young children from different schools watching and it didn't send a very good message to these kids. I'm sure that they are going to go away thinking that it's all right to fight. Whatever happened to skill?

J.A. Parry

Oshawa




My thoughts are that the Gens fight every game, so if you don't want your kids to see it don't send them. Fighting has been a part of the game 4 ever. With the Ontario government legalising fighting (UFC), we're not as a nation moving towards removing fighting. I get the point of protecting kids from violence, but its there every week on HNIC, its in the papers, the news, kids shows (power rangers, ninja turtles, and whatever the newer shows are).

I am not a big fan of fighting in hockey - BUT it happens - the old time theory was fights in hockey happened in the heat of the moment - BUT far too many times now and every fight on Tuesday was staged and took away from the game.

As this game was billed as a school game - the coaching staff on both teams should take some responsibility.
Unless you are a fan of the team - fighting does not usually happen as much as it did that day

I'm not a fan of fighting. Regardless of its place in the game's history, I think all fights should be an automatic game misconduct as they would be in any other sport. Just because it's been around forever, it doesn't make it right. I think it's a black eye on the sport.

That being said, you can't change the way you play because it's a school day game. The rules are the rules. If you take a guy like Emerson Clark, you can't ask him to suddenly play a different game because there's a lot of kids in the stands. Even other more skilled players on the ice, if a situation presents itself where you would fight, it doesn't matter whether it's 11am or 8pm, you play the game the way you normally would. Players can never change the way they play for one game, particularly against a team as strong as Mississauga. If they are out there thinking too much, it throws their rhythm off completely and their game will suffer.

This letter writer would probably feel the same way about Crosby's fight the other night because of his status as a role model and ambassador of the game.

Lacrosse, Boxing, UFC

not just hockey

I think UFC is a different story. Fighting is the sport. Those fighters are tremendous athletes and the object of their game is to punch, kick, slam and whatever other manoeuvre you can perform to get your opponent to submit and not be able to continue the fight. Anyone who is watching it is fully aware of what they are about to see and there are limits of what UFC fighters can do. I would argue that the UFC fighters actually have way more respect for each other than hockey players do. The vicious hits from behind that we see in hockey are things you would never see in UFC.

In hockey, the object of the game is to score more goals than the other team. If fighting was "part of the game" as many people argue, the clock would keep running while the fight was on. Whatever happens with the time not moving is NOT part of the game. Fighting is an entertaining sideshow. It's as much a part of the game as mascots and the 50/50 draw. Some argue that fights change the momentum of the game. Sure they can. However, for every one that does, there are ten that don't. Most hockey fights are staged events which distract from the game.

So there's my defence of UFC and my rant against hockey fighting. I'll admit that I find hockey fights entertaining - that doesn't mean that I think they should be permitted though. I also find fights entertaining in baseball and football but players there are thrown out of the game - hockey should do the same.

hockeybeats wrote:I think UFC is a different story. Fighting is the sport. Those fighters are tremendous athletes and the object of their game is to punch, kick, slam and whatever other manoeuvre you can perform to get your opponent to submit and not be able to continue the fight. Anyone who is watching it is fully aware of what they are about to see and there are limits of what UFC fighters can do. I would argue that the UFC fighters actually have way more respect for each other than hockey players do. The vicious hits from behind that we see in hockey are things you would never see in UFC.

In hockey, the object of the game is to score more goals than the other team. If fighting was "part of the game" as many people argue, the clock would keep running while the fight was on. Whatever happens with the time not moving is NOT part of the game. Fighting is an entertaining sideshow. It's as much a part of the game as mascots and the 50/50 draw. Some argue that fights change the momentum of the game. Sure they can. However, for every one that does, there are ten that don't. Most hockey fights are staged events which distract from the game.

So there's my defence of UFC and my rant against hockey fighting. I'll admit that I find hockey fights entertaining - that doesn't mean that I think they should be permitted though. I also find fights entertaining in baseball and football but players there are thrown out of the game - hockey should do the same.

Some fights might be useless, but you did acknowledge that some can change the momentum of the game. So they are useful. You also mentioned that they're entertaining. In addition fighters help protect and create room for skill players. I'm also not a fan of the "it should be like these other sports". It's not baseball, not football, it's hockey.

Getting back to the thread. I didn't see the game sheet online, but if there was that many fights in the game in front of those kids, well that's unfortunate. However, the schools/teachers/parents signed off on it. Are they surprised that they went to a hockey game and it was violent?

i don't mind fighting in hockey and understand it has its place. What i don't like (and saw a lot of Tuesday) were the "pre arranged" fights off of a face off. One might be ok but i think there were at least three that occurred off faceoffs. One involving a winger and the centre. To me those were unnecessary. They weren't heat of the moment fights or fighting someone who gave a team mate a cheap shot. Rather they were simply undisciplined play.

I understand one or maybe even two to give your team a spark, but Tuesday went far beyond that.

your leaving a bunch of 16-20 year old kids to inform your kids regarding the dos and donts of hockey? your allowing these same kids to parent your children on what is acceptable by your standards?

seriously, if you dont like it and dont want your kids to do it. tell em yourself.

GoGennies wrote:your leaving a bunch of 16-20 year old kids to inform your kids regarding the dos and donts of hockey? your allowing these same kids to parent your children on what is acceptable by your standards?

seriously, if you dont like it and dont want your kids to do it. tell em yourself.

Cudos. Amen !

sorry, but one hockey game is not going to alter a childs life. kids see and hear worse on a school day

Fighting is part of hockey, period. The staged fights are considered to be more noble by the players, as no player has an advantage when it starts. Sometimes, when the fights erupt from the scrum...one guy is being held by a player or linesman, and the opponent gets shots in early, and win the fight before the other guys knows he was in a fight.

That is the point of the staged fight. So each guy starts with no advantage. I like fighting. If the parent of this article listened...he would have heard all the kids chanting..."fight, fight, fight..." sure sounded like they didn't enjoy it either.

When you have 3 or 4 in a row....that usually means one team feels they got one upped. And that is pure testorone coming out. Nobody wants to be shown up. It will always be in hockey. I love it....two guys ...fair fight...5 minutes...nothing more is needed.

Ahh the age old debate on fighting in hockey. It is part of the game, I've played it, and watched it for years. One good thing about fighting in hockey is that when its over, its over. The guys usually have more respect for the other guy after a good dust up. I think kids can actually learn from that, and people should be more worried about what kids are watching on TV (family guy, south park) or video games (Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty) . Hockey fights have been going on since the original six, and that whole generation turned out fine, the problem with this generation is there all watching this crap on TV, and parents aren't allowed to properly disciplene kids like when I grew up. When I was a kid if I saw something in a movie, I knew it was just a movie, and If i ever did that in real life my dad would kick my ass. Thats the problem with kids now, too much technology, not enough parenting going on.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but kids yelling "Fight! Fight! Fight!" (or adults for that matter) is not evidence of whether it is appropriate or not. Kids yell the same thing in the schoolyard when a fight breaks out. It isn't anymore appropriate over there.

On a similar note, those who argue against shootouts will usually acknowledge their entertainment value despite the fact that they think it should have no place in deciding the outcome of a game.

The debate is here is whether fighting in hockey is appropriate and a legitimate part of the game or a useless sideshow. As I said earlier, I call it a useless sideshow although it is an entertaining one. There are legitimate arguments in favour of fighting in hockey with which I will respectfully disagree. Everyone loves them is not a legitimate argument in my opinion. The crowd went nuts for the line brawl against the Petes in a game that was already decided because it was a heck of a show, that doesn't make it right.

Fighting is here to stay! It's a part of hockey and that's that. Those that feel it's wrong to have fighting in hockey maybe should pick a new sport to watch. There is a penalty for fighting and the leagues allow it in their rules. So if a person does not like the rules, then you know your options, live with it or move on!

ohagan wrote:Fighting is here to stay! It's a part of hockey and that's that. Those that feel it's wrong to have fighting in hockey maybe should pick a new sport to watch. There is a penalty for fighting and the leagues allow it in their rules. So if a person does not like the rules, then you know your options, live with it or move on!

They do? Last time I checked, it was a 5-minute penalty. I'm not asking for a rule change, just for increasing the penalty on an existing rule - automatic game misconduct.

The debate over fighting has been going on for years. I think what may change the views on fighting is research with regard to concussions.

An article on a recent Ontario study said " Principal researcher Dr. Paul Echlin of London, Ont., says almost one-quarter of the concussions occurred among players involved in on-ice fights."

This study found the incidence of concussions was much higher than thought.

With clear research on the long-term impact of brain injuries now available there will need to be a rethink of the fighting issue. I think this will be a serious issue for all contact sports (and especially the UFC).

While more also needs to be done to protect the players from head injuries during the game it becomes more difficult to justify fighting (at least to me).

I am not a fan of fighting (although I was many years ago). I love to watch the game and think the sport needs to be careful about the head injury issue.

I like the idea of suspensions or game misconducts for line brawls, 3rd man in, 2nd fight in a game.

The problem with game misconducts for 1st fight is that rather then the non skilled players getting injured the star players will. There is a reason al teams carry enforcers it keeps people like Tyler Taylor from beating up on the star players intentionally. (Tylers name came to mind because I was at the game in Belleville when he speared one of our players after the game, in my mnd it was clear intent to injure,) I think that taking out the repurcussion (getting jumpe, makes it more likely to occur.

I hear this argument all the time but I think it shows little faith in the players. We should give them some credit. If we don't see players going out of their way to injure the star quarterbacks in the NFL in a game that is equally physical to hockey, why is it automatic that removing fighting means it's open season on Crosby and Ovechkin? Why was nobody throwing 90 mph fastballs at Roy Halladay's head during the NLCS? I don't think star players would see any more abuse than they do right now.

Tyler Taylor shouldn't go out and seek to injure star players because he should be a character guy, not because he's afraid of some other team's enforcer. If a player isn't a character guy and hits a star, they would be suspended for it. All leagues go out of their way to protect stars when it comes to officiating and suspensions.